Reply to: Questions to ask the agents when they ring?

[SueEllen]

If you would so kind as to pass me a glass too?!?

Unfortunately though being a contractor was never a choice for me. I certainly don't have any control as to whether I contract or whether I go permie - neither road is a chosen route these days...

Yes the UK IT "industry" is a mess.

I shall start cold calling companies now (well after you've passed that bottle over here!)

It's always worth going through your email inbox if you are between contracts and contacting people directly.

[PinkPoshRat]

Agreeing with each other twice in a day?? Pass that vodka!!

If you would so kind as to pass me a glass too?!?

Unfortunately though being a contractor was never a choice for me. I certainly don't have any control as to whether I contract or whether I go permie - neither road is a chosen route these days...

I shall start cold calling companies now (well after you've passed that bottle over here!)

[The Agents View]

If you are a director or employee of a limited company then the costs of gaining new business comes out of the company you work for turnover.



If you are giving them too much information in your meeting so that it's free consultancy then you need to change your technique.

You need to decide whether you really want to be a contractor as part of being a contractor/freelance is the fact that some of your time will be taken up chasing leads for new business and networking. Some of these leads won't give you any benefit ever but others will even if it takes years.................

Agreeing with each other twice in a day?? Pass that vodka!!

[SueEllen]

I would much rather wait for the later to happen, as it saves time and money. How about you pay me for the cost of me travelling up and down the country to these "interviews" if all I am doing is representing you at a stage where client is not even sure they have a budget?

If you are a director or employee of a limited company then the costs of gaining new business comes out of the company you work for turnover.

These meetings should be seen as free consultancy meetings, after all the client is asking me how to manage their 'problem'. The client is not actually asking me to come on board and resolve their problem. WTF should I drive miles to give out free consultancy on the pretence that I am having an interview for a role which I might be awarded??

If you are giving them too much information in your meeting so that it's free consultancy then you need to change your technique.

You need to decide whether you really want to be a contractor as part of being a contractor/freelance is the fact that some of your time will be taken up chasing leads for new business and networking. Some of these leads won't give you any benefit ever but others will even if it takes years.................

[The Agents View]

With respect though, you're not unemployed whereas I am. I have no income, I can't afford to run around when agents tell me they have a CONTRACT for me, when in reality THEY DON'T.

You're not unemployed, you're running your own business. The reason you are struggling is because you don't have any revenue coming in. The only way you can get revenue coming in, is to invest capital in sales activity. This industry is built on relationships, so go out and build some - use interviews as a route to someone to add to your network - see it as a chance to see if you could add value, and then get their contact details. Tell them that if you're unsuccessful in this role, you'd be keen to keep in touch for the future.

This is basic sales technique - and that is what you are looking for - sales of your services - not "a job" - jobs are for permies, assignments/contracts are for contractors.

I run my own P&L - so I see the costs of making sales - think of your sales like this, and plan for it. Your personal finances, and those of your business should be completely seperate.

If you can't get your head around this, then I'm afraid it's a one way street to permiedom for you.

[PinkPoshRat]

For the same reason as anyone selling their services....you have to kiss a few frogs to find your prince/princess - that's the way BUSINESSES (which is what you are, get out of the mindset of being a person) work.

If I told any of my clients that I wanted them to pay for my chance to pitch to them, they'd laugh me off the park!

With respect though, you're not unemployed whereas I am. I have no income, I can't afford to run around when agents tell me they have a CONTRACT for me, when in reality THEY DON'T.

[The Agents View]

I would much rather wait for the later to happen, as it saves time and money. How about you pay me for the cost of me travelling up and down the country to these "interviews" if all I am doing is representing you at a stage where client is not even sure they have a budget?

These meetings should be seen as free consultancy meetings, after all the client is asking me how to manage their 'problem'. The client is not actually asking me to come on board and resolve their problem. WTF should I drive miles to give out free consultancy on the pretence that I am having an interview for a role which I might be awarded??

For the same reason as anyone selling their services....you have to kiss a few frogs to find your prince/princess - that's the way BUSINESSES (which is what you are, get out of the mindset of being a person) work.

If I told any of my clients that I wanted them to pay for my chance to pitch to them, they'd laugh me off the park!

[PinkPoshRat]

I don't really like the assumption that contractors have to fit into a predefined "role". For one thing, you get more chance of adding value to a client when they're at the stage of having identified a problem that needs solving, not when they've already done all the hard work and whittled it down to a staffing requirement. Our larger competitors who get the big bucks will be in there pitching from the first sniff of a problem, not refusing to get out of bed until the client has dotted all the i's and crossed all the t's. When would you rather see a client - when you've got a chance to convince them to take you on before a requirement's even gone out to market, or when it's been packaged up by HR and sent out to half a dozen agencies?

I would much rather wait for the later to happen, as it saves time and money. How about you pay me for the cost of me travelling up and down the country to these "interviews" if all I am doing is representing you at a stage where client is not even sure they have a budget?

These meetings should be seen as free consultancy meetings, after all the client is asking me how to manage their 'problem'. The client is not actually asking me to come on board and resolve their problem. WTF should I drive miles to give out free consultancy on the pretence that I am having an interview for a role which I might be awarded??

[The Agents View]

I think this is the 2nd time we have actually agreed on something.

Have you been drinking the contents of your Avatar?

[SueEllen]

Standard answers for non savvy contractors, who don't understand that half the battle is getting you in front of the client - the rest can be arranged.

I think this is the 2nd time we have actually agreed on something.

[The Agents View]

1 - Are they on the clients PSL?
2 - Has the role been signed off?

I'm starting to learn that not all agents are even on the PSL and that it's possible to have an interview for a role which hasn't been signed off from HR...!

Standard answers for non savvy contractors, who don't understand that half the battle is getting you in front of the client - the rest can be arranged.

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Weekly (this is obviously true)
4) Yes
5) The rate is £x to you.

Nobody really WANTS to waste anyones time, but as I say, half the battle is getting people talking - this is how BUSINESS works - you sell your wares, you get the foot in, then you thrash out the details. A well versed agent, can get anyone into anywhere, whether PSL'd or not.

As a point of note, a PSL is a "preferred suppliers list" - It is not exclusive, just preferred. In theory at least.

TAV

[SueEllen]

I see your point but the what I'm suggesting is that if they give you a draft contract and standard payment terms up front then you have a good idea of what sort of company you are doing business with before the negotiations even start.

Arguing about payment/contract terms or going through a contract when you haven't even been interviewed yet is a waste of time particularly as the contract can be pulled at any time for a number of reasons.

If the client says they want you then yes the agent should email you a copy of the draft contract asap.

If there are multiple agencies with the same role then doing some research on here [the search feature is very useful] would probably be more of a time saver as some agencies with strange payment or contract terms have been already mentioned.

[Wanderer]

You can get the contract renegotiated very easily especially if you bother getting a solicitor to rewrite it for you so that one is a waste of time.

I see your point but the what I'm suggesting is that if they give you a draft contract and standard payment terms up front then you have a good idea of what sort of company you are doing business with before the negotiations even start.

If and when you get an offer, you can start negotiating but often there are multiple agencies flogging the same job. If one comes up with 45 day payment terms and a contract full of stupid/unenforceable/illegal terms that I'm going to have to hire a lawyer to straighten out then I'm going to find another agent who will represent me for the same job....

Of course, if there's only one agent offering the job then I'll deal with their nonsense but given the choice up front I'd rather not.

[SueEllen]

I don't really like the assumption that contractors have to fit into a predefined "role". For one thing, you get more chance of adding value to a client when they're at the stage of having identified a problem that needs solving, not when they've already done all the hard work and whittled it down to a staffing requirement.

I have to agree with that.

If I had waited until the budget had definitely been signed off before I was interviewed I would not have had any work in the last 12 months.

As a contractor you need to take the risk that the client doesn't know exactly what they want and be prepare to spend a bit of time going to interviews and keeping in contact with people even if the budgets haven't been signed off. You may get the contract then, or the client may contact you in months or years time because it looks like you fit a requirement they have. And yes you may be told to go through a particular agency if the client is a big one.

One of the points of being is a contractor is that you are flexible which means you have to live with some uncertainty.

[SueEllen]

3 - What are your payment terms?

You may be able to renegotiate payment terms once you have the contract.

However you are better of particularly with agencies or clients, direct or indirect, you never heard off:
1. Googling to get an idea of how big the agency or client is - you may have to use a few simple google search tricks to get the required information but it's not hard
2. Checking how solvent they are for example by going to Companies House and downloading a copy of their annual report. You may also find information by simple googling as some companies will announce their annual turnover and profit in online trade websites. It's not worth doing a simple credit check of companies as I've been screwed by a company that was credit checked and fine.