Reply to: Ask the agent. The Good, the bad and the ugly

[The Agents View]

CV Advice

I have always gone down the rule of a maximum two sides of A4 when it comes to my CV, briefly it works out P1 Personal Details, Personal Statements (6-7 bullet points of 1 -2 sentences) then Education/Qualifications/Training. P2 is then work history.

Now this is OK for permie work where I can list company, positions and role information, but now I am contracting I want to put my Ltd company as my employer and then under that list what I have done for clients without listing specific clients.

Is this the best way to structure a "contractor" CV, or if not could you give me any tips? Reading yours and others posts it seems that key word searches are still widely used but I don't want to overload the CV with buzz words.

Thanks in advance

Simon

Wow....OK - you've really opened a can of worms there.

I'll break it down.

Key words: Yes - but there's an age old trick to this. Take all your key words, type them out, repeating all of them over and over. Then, shrink the font to the smallest level you can, and colour the typing white. The job boards and search engines will pick this up, but you won't have to worry about your key words looking stupid in your CV - Think about this from the searchers perspective - eg: Project Manager, Project Manage, Project Managing, Project Delivery....and so on.

Length: Now I feel like an agony aunt..... "it's not the length, it's what you do with it". To be honest, it depends. I have different preferences to other people. A good agent will be able to tell you what a client prefers.

I personally like a more in-depth CV, as it gives me more opportunity to understand. Others like a high level CV, and you may find yourself having to write one for initial interest, and an in-depth one for interviews etc.

2-3 pages is a good intro - 4-5 is a good length of in-depth CV - 5-150 is overkill generally. Agqin, this is completely down to the reader though.

I don't know what you do - however, I would structure it as follows:

SimonMac Consulting Limited:
Managing Director
2010 -

Client: ABC
Requirement:
Method:
Result:

Client: DEF
Requirement:
Method:
Result:

and so on.

I'm afraid, with all the current competition, clients and agents will want to know who you've been working for - at the moment, we have so much choice as to who we put through, that very few will take the time to give you that feedback though.

Ultimately, your CV needs credibility - big client businesses will add that - SimonMac Consulting, simply won't.

I hope that helps - if anything doesn't make sense, please feel free to ask further questions! Welcome to CUK!

[SimonMac]

CV Advice

I have always gone down the rule of a maximum two sides of A4 when it comes to my CV, briefly it works out P1 Personal Details, Personal Statements (6-7 bullet points of 1 -2 sentences) then Education/Qualifications/Training. P2 is then work history.

Now this is OK for permie work where I can list company, positions and role information, but now I am contracting I want to put my Ltd company as my employer and then under that list what I have done for clients without listing specific clients.

Is this the best way to structure a "contractor" CV, or if not could you give me any tips? Reading yours and others posts it seems that key word searches are still widely used but I don't want to overload the CV with buzz words.

Thanks in advance

Simon

[The Agents View]

The Client relationships don't really (some do, some are brand loyal) but the contractors already working do - you can't just port them across.

So essentially, you start from scratch.

To correct this to your question.

You DON'T Lose the client relationships - they're personal (although most agencies will have contractual obligations on movers not to make contact - but they're rarely upheld).

You DO lose all of the contractors placed - you can't just port them to your new agency.

You also lose any database or historical work records - so it can be difficult to remember what you've told whom, and how much of the sales funnel you have to go through next time you speak to them!!

[The Agents View]

I often get asked if I have other interviews in the pipeline. I realise that mostly this is to generate leads but for a genuine agent does the answer sway you in any way? Say I say that I have an interview lined up, would you be tempted not to submit my CV to your client in case I may accept the other offer and you dont want to use up your maximum 3 CV quota?

Or does having another interview mean that I am in demand?

It's a risk thing more than anything.

Yes, if you give out the client, contact, telephone number etc out, expect to have more competition for the role very quickly.

Otherwise, you have to consider how likely the contractor is to take your role if offered - We often ask the rates and how they compare - this is so that we know what we're up against - there can be millions of variable as to why we want to be aware of this - perhaps we can stretch budgets, perhaps we can push to match it, perhaps we can cut our margins, perhaps we can speed the process up and have you have to make a decision.

Ultimately, if you have 10 interviews lined up at £1000 per day, and I have a £400 per day role - I'm not likely to waste the time of myself or my client. I'll either find them someone else, or explain to them that they want the earth but aren't prepared to pay for it. If the roles I have stack up OK against the competition we can proceed without a problem.

[The Agents View]

Does the platform go with you when you move companies ? </Just curious>

Boo

The Client relationships don't really (some do, some are brand loyal) but the contractors already working do - you can't just port them across.

So essentially, you start from scratch.

[Naaarwich]

Other interviews

I often get asked if I have other interviews in the pipeline. I realise that mostly this is to generate leads but for a genuine agent does the answer sway you in any way? Say I say that I have an interview lined up, would you be tempted not to submit my CV to your client in case I may accept the other offer and you dont want to use up your maximum 3 CV quota?

Or does having another interview mean that I am in demand?

[oracleslave]

Does the platform go with you when you move companies ? </Just curious>

Boo

Probably not.

Foxtons_sues_ex-director_over_database_theft_claim ... - Estate Agent Today

Different kind of agent yes, but they're all the same right?

[Boo]

once you've built that platform up, it's alot easier to control and plan!

Does the platform go with you when you move companies ? </Just curious>

Boo

[The Agents View]

Just a quickie.

Nobody likes bad news but at the same time it's much easier to move on if you get a definitive answer, agents of the world... just tell it how it is, we can take it!!

It's only mid morning and I'm already dreading starting the weekend not knowing, it's feckin' purgatory.

This is about the most common complaint in recruitment.

It's caused by the fact that nobody likes giving bad news.

I have had to reject two people this morning, who I thought were shoo ins. Maybe I'm at an advantage having been on the other side of the fence, but there is one thing you should consider.

If we don't know, we can't tell you - so whilst yes, it is our job to chase it, there's only so much chasing that is possible before people get really hacked off.

If the client has not told us anything at all, we're hanging on a thread as much as you are - afterall, it impacts us as well.

I do agree that negative feedback should be a high priority though - how can you improve and keep up with latest interview techniques, if nobody tells you the bits you could have done differently.

[gingerjedi]

Just a quickie.

Nobody likes bad news but at the same time it's much easier to move on if you get a definitive answer, agents of the world... just tell it how it is, we can take it!!

It's only mid morning and I'm already dreading starting the weekend not knowing, it's feckin' purgatory.

[The Agents View]

I'll tell you how my personal commission scheme works, but they vary wildly dependent on the focus of the agency.

So.

My scheme is worked out on the amount of billings I generate.

Boundaries are as follows:

Monthly:

0-£4000 = 0 (if you bill less than 4000 you get zilch.)
0-£10,000 = 10% = £1000
10-£20,000 = 15% = £1500
20 - £30,000 = 20% = £2000
30 - £35,000 = 25% = £1250
35 + = 32% = Headless.

An average consultant can expect to have 15-20 people out at any one time - perhaps a few more. A decent consultant should be billing between 20 and 30k per month.

So on that basis, if I was to bill 30,000 in a month, I would be paid - £4500 + basic. If you can do that consistently, you can make an £80,000 living roughly.

It's like anything in sales though - if you're unbelieveably good, you can make alot more - figures of £250,000 PA for extremely successful billers are not that uncommon - you're probably talking about generating £800,000 of income for that though.

We do all work on commission (generally speaking) but we do also have a basic salary (although you couldn't live on it).

Bear in mind, these things fluctuate wildly - 2 years ago, with my previous employer, my annual billings came to a total of £270,000. Of that, my TOTAL earnings (including basic) came to £48k. If I generate that here, I would be looking at earning closer to £90k.

It's worth bearing in mind though, that the £25 squeeze that you might be feeling at the moment, makes a grand total of £2.50 per day difference to the agent. Think about that - I know if it was me, I'd rather have the £7.50 per day in my pocket by taking a lower margin, than risk it for the sake of getting the other £2.50 and upsetting the contractor - we really do (most of us, normally anyway) only negotiate when it's forced upon us.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
TAV

Oh and by the way - that £80k living, involves regular (like at least 3 times a week) 14 hour days, a complete mauling by your boss at least once a week, moaning contractors, moaning clients, cold calling, people telling you to £u<k off, contractors telling you to do the same because you want to check their references.....etc etc....so whilst it has its rewards, it's also pretty tough going.

Oh and you have a period of about 6-9 months when you join that means you live on basic salary - once you've built that platform up, it's alot easier to control and plan!

TAV

[The Agents View]

And what is the agreement between the agent and the agency? Of the 15% on top of my rate that the agency gets, what of that goes to the agent? Do agents work on salary or commission?

How many actively working contractors would an agent have going at one time?

Just trying to figure out how much agents are making relative to the type of contractors they place.

I'll tell you how my personal commission scheme works, but they vary wildly dependent on the focus of the agency.

So.

My scheme is worked out on the amount of billings I generate.

Boundaries are as follows:

Monthly:

0-£4000 = 0 (if you bill less than 4000 you get zilch.)
0-£10,000 = 10% = £1000
10-£20,000 = 15% = £1500
20 - £30,000 = 20% = £2000
30 - £35,000 = 25% = £1250
35 + = 32% = Headless.

An average consultant can expect to have 15-20 people out at any one time - perhaps a few more. A decent consultant should be billing between 20 and 30k per month.

So on that basis, if I was to bill 30,000 in a month, I would be paid - £4500 + basic. If you can do that consistently, you can make an £80,000 living roughly.

It's like anything in sales though - if you're unbelieveably good, you can make alot more - figures of £250,000 PA for extremely successful billers are not that uncommon - you're probably talking about generating £800,000 of income for that though.

We do all work on commission (generally speaking) but we do also have a basic salary (although you couldn't live on it).

Bear in mind, these things fluctuate wildly - 2 years ago, with my previous employer, my annual billings came to a total of £270,000. Of that, my TOTAL earnings (including basic) came to £48k. If I generate that here, I would be looking at earning closer to £90k.

It's worth bearing in mind though, that the £25 squeeze that you might be feeling at the moment, makes a grand total of £2.50 per day difference to the agent. Think about that - I know if it was me, I'd rather have the £7.50 per day in my pocket by taking a lower margin, than risk it for the sake of getting the other £2.50 and upsetting the contractor - we really do (most of us, normally anyway) only negotiate when it's forced upon us.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
TAV

[QueenElizabeth]

And what is the agreement between the agent and the agency? Of the 15% on top of my rate that the agency gets, what of that goes to the agent? Do agents work on salary or commission?

How many actively working contractors would an agent have going at one time?

Just trying to figure out how much agents are making relative to the type of contractors they place.

[Wanderer]

On that logic, Tesco should include on every product the amount it cost them for the ingredients, and restaurants should tell you how much they paid for the wine on their wine-list.

The trouble is that supermarkets sell stuff with a known price. If your spuds are too expensive at Tesco then you can go to Morrisons or where ever. Contractors are often working in niche markets and they are open to exploitation. That said, I don't think more regulation is any sort of answer. As TAV says, it's a free market and you are supposed to be running a business here.

It's worth finding out how much your client is paying (often they will tell you straight up) and you can negotiate.

Quite aside from that, how many permies get upset that they are being charged out at 2,000 a day by the big consultancies and only take home a few hundred of that?

[The Agents View]

I wish government would pass a law which stipulated that the lower contract between agent and contractor should include a definition of the markup which the agent is using. But normally that's a closely guarded secret which you don't have sight of (until you arrive on site and get insider information, by which time it's too late).



You can think about this all you like - but the only way to put that through, is to have it as an employment right. I'm sure the taxman would be very interested to hear about that.

the Agent and the contractor have NO agreement.

The agency, has a BUSINESS TO BUSINESS arrangement with the Limited company which happens to be owned by a contractor. As with any reselling channel, we can charge whatever we like on top, because it's a BUSINESS TO BUSINESS contract, therefore has no human rights.