Reply to: Prince 2 Training Company Recommendations

[ascender]

I've said it before, possibly in this thread, but I really rate the PMP qualification. I'd never heard of it until I applied for a contract with a US firm operating out of the UK and it was a pre-requisite for their contractors. As they couldn't find any suitable, they took me on with the understanding that I'd complete it within my first few months there. Really glad I did and I'd recommend it to anyone looking for a genuinely useful-in-the-real-world PM qualification.

[RichardCranium]

But as you also cannot get a contract, surely it's just another paper qualification?

Thanks for the abuse in "Business/Contracts" over my personal success.

<plonk>

[MarillionFan]

I don't suppose anyone really cares, but...

... and I passed (the PRINCE2 Practitioner Re-registration).

But as you also cannot get a contract, surely it's just another paper qualification?

[RichardCranium]

I don't suppose anyone really cares, but...

I have just booked on a 5 day refresher with Knowledge Academy (my PRINCE2 expired in the summer) and got it ½ price as it starts in 2 weeks.

... and I passed (the PRINCE2 Practitioner Re-registration).

[RichardCranium]

in PMP, the project is driven by the sponsor (the paying customer). In Prince2, the philosophy is loftier as the project is driven by the strength of the business case. This viewpoint suggests that if the business case is not strong enough, then the project cannot start, even if the sponsor who has the money, wants it to happen. Romantic, but not on this planet so far.

It does happen. If the culture of the organisation supports PRINCE2, then the business case is king. As a public sector PM I have worked this way a number of times.

In my opinion, the greatest strength of PRINCE2 is the business case because (beside other benefits such as helping avoud scope creep) it allows you to terminate a project that needs to be terminated. The DWP did so quite publicly a couple or 3 years ago: they spent something like £1m on a £17m project, got to a review, saw the business case was not going to work and so they terminated the project. Ker-ching, probably £25m to £40m saved. The trade press tried to slate them for wasting £1m and failed.

Overall, in my experience, America invented modern business project management.

Specifically, NASA.

my favourite is PMP. Its also a tougher qualification to get as you need to have a degree, and at least 3 (iirc) years provable experience in the field before you are allowed to sit the exam.

It is much, much tougher. Anyone with some business experience, a little nous, and the ability to communicate can pass the PRINCE2 Practitioner by attending the 5 day course.

PRINCE2 Practitioner is an entry level project management qualification.

[beercohol]

i'm actually working my way through a pmi cbt at the moment and the good thing about it is that it does teach you project management tools and techniques

but i think its an addition to prince2, which is a good framework, but pointless if you don't know how to apply it

Across the pond in the big US of A. PMI is their Project Management Institute, and PMP is their project management professional qualification. Their holy book is the PMBOK (pronounced Pimbock by lunatics and pedants), which stands for the Project Management Body of Knowledge. Actually its a pretty good book.

Over here it's Prince2 (Projects in a controlled environment version 2, although v2 underwent a refresh last year but still called Prince2). They are similar in most ways, but quite different in a couple. Planning, for instance is very different. The UK Prince2 method prescribes a Product-based Planning technique which in my view is superior to the traditional WBS style planning used by PMP. Whereas PMP concentrates a lot harder in evaluating and reporting with its Earned-value analysis and accompanying mathematic formulas.

One other major difference is that in PMP (the Americans), the project is driven by the sponsor (the paying customer). Whether or not the project goes ahead is based on the whim of this person. This is the real world, of course.

In Prince2, the philosophy is loftier as the project is driven by the strength of the business case, not the sponsor. This viewpoint suggests that if the business case is not strong enough, then the project cannot start, even if the sponsor who has the money, wants it to happen. Romantic, but not on this planet so far.

Overall, in my experience, America invented modern business project management. They really understand it. Save for a couple of good ideas in Prince2, my favourite is PMP. Its also a tougher qualification to get as you need to have a degree, and at least 3 (iirc) years provable experience in the field before you are allowed to sit the exam.

[Wilmslow]

I'll check them all out. I always think its best to get recommendations for stuff like this, so many thanks

Hi there,

Just wondering which provider you went for in the end?

I have my foundation, wanting to upgrade to Practitioner myself......

[saptastic]

Would anyone be able to recommend a training company for Prince 2 please.

Tks!

Maven are very knowledgable and helpful in my experience.

[filthy1980]

PMI PMP isn't Prince or Prince2, it's a different PM/PMO related qualification.

It's a simple fact that irrespective of what body offers the qualification, what they call their methodologies and what names and acronyms they use they all boil down to much the same thing. A project has a set of logical phases that require control appropriate to that specific project.
All any of these courses do is to formalise the steps, suggest some document formats that are suitable for various stages and help you to avoid missing bits that will cause problems. The important thing to know about these courses is they won't teach you how to be a PM if you aren't one to begin with.

i'm actually working my way through a pmi cbt at the moment and the good thing about it is that it does teach you project management tools and techniques

but i think its an addition to prince2, which is a good framework, but pointless if you don't know how to apply it

[TykeMerc]

PMI PMP isn't Prince or Prince2, it's a different PM/PMO related qualification.

It's a simple fact that irrespective of what body offers the qualification, what they call their methodologies and what names and acronyms they use they all boil down to much the same thing. A project has a set of logical phases that require control appropriate to that specific project.
All any of these courses do is to formalise the steps, suggest some document formats that are suitable for various stages and help you to avoid missing bits that will cause problems. The important thing to know about these courses is they won't teach you how to be a PM if you aren't one to begin with.

[DeludedAussie]

if anyone hear's of any PMI PMP courses on offer please give me a shout

How useful is this course? I men what can you do with Prince that you cannot without

[filthy1980]

if anyone hear's of any PMI PMP courses on offer please give me a shout

[cykophysh39]

I used Skillsolve for my P2 practitioner, very good course and good tutors. High pass rate.

+1 Just passed my P2 Foundation + Prac with Skillsolve. Will now also be doing my MSP with them

[RichardCranium]

I found Maven Training to be excellent. Got my Foundation and Practitioner with them.

I did my PRINCE2 the first time with Maven and was very happy with the amount of pre-reading material and additional course booklets and the amount of training we got during the week. It was expensive, but good value for that money. When we did the Foundation on the Wednesday, two of us got only one of the questions wrong. The trainer gave both of us a copy of "People Issues and PRINCE2" out of her own pocket as a prize, despite saying she normally has one person get all the questions right.

i used Knowledge academy about 18months ago, no real complaints,

That's good news. I have just booked on a 5 day refresher with Knowledge Academy (my PRINCE2 expired in the summer) and got it ½ price as it starts in 2 weeks.

[filthy1980]

i used Knowledge academy about 18months ago, no real complaints, they had courses running in loads of locations, tea & coffee on tap, lunch was provided (decent spread), very good tutor, class size was about 16, but that may have been inflated due to a lot of people who had been made redundant had been funded to go on the course, i was the only one that had actually paid for it

and they haven't bombarded me with offers on other courses either

have been looking into doing PMI PMP and companies like firebrand and calling every week pestering me, put me off them