Reply to: New Govt - HSMP in trouble?

[secontrator]

Considering any changes to General Tier 1 (new HSMP) would be the 3rd lot of changes in only a year I certainly hope they don't shift the goal posts AGAIN. These are peoples lives you're toying with each time the rules change, I personally know a perfectly lovely girl who's been done over by a total of 3 visa rule changes in a row now

It would also be interesting if some of you clarified why you hope the rules are tightened, why some of you think EU vs non-EU should make a difference, and what you hope to achieve by curbing the number of high earning, high spending, high tax-paying immigrants?


Mobi, can you clarify and/or provide source regarding this statement? I'm familiar with the 6th April 2010 changes to Tier 1 visas but am not sure what you mean here?

ICT is a backdoor entry to the UK and to the banks where Tier 1 guys do a nut job and they end up charging a huge lots of money by their outsourcers.

It's a BIG SCAM. Iam not convinced by the TAX PAYING mate. I know a person who is in HSMP and hired by TCS charging a lot of money and his return is 90%. Though it is not illegal, but it is WRONG.

That is unfair for all the permies who pays tax.

[mrdonuts]

With 3 million unemployed some of who are intelligent and keen enough to learn new skills the government should be offering more in the way of training and offering companies encouragement and financial aid to take on new people where there are skills shortage gaps.

If they find there is nobody on the dole who is prepared to retrain, that we have run out of unemployed to cross train in new skill sets then fine get the boys from India et al in to do the work with restrictions on how much money they can send out of the country (maybe they could work for vouchers that could be exchanged for goods and services).

Keep Britains workers British or at least European, though god knows how long until China becomes part of Europe the way the union is expanding.

this is just common sense, its not racist at all. you can bet there countries wouldnt stand for the 2nd class citizen crap we have had to put up with. hopefully the condems will see the light

[HairyArsedBloke]

With 3 million unemployed some of who are intelligent and keen enough to learn new skills the government should be offering more in the way of training and offering companies encouragement and financial aid to take on new people where there are skills shortage gaps.

8.17 million economical inactive

If they find there is nobody on the dole who is prepared to retrain, that we have run out of unemployed to cross train in new skill sets then fine get the boys from India et al in to do the work with restrictions on how much money they can send out of the country (maybe they could work for vouchers that could be exchanged for goods and services).

Keep Britains workers British or at least European, though god knows how long until China becomes part of Europe the way the union is expanding.

NO NO NO NO

[dspsyssts]

With 3 million unemployed some of who are intelligent and keen enough to learn new skills the government should be offering more in the way of training and offering companies encouragement and financial aid to take on new people where there are skills shortage gaps.

If they find there is nobody on the dole who is prepared to retrain, that we have run out of unemployed to cross train in new skill sets then fine get the boys from India et al in to do the work with restrictions on how much money they can send out of the country (maybe they could work for vouchers that could be exchanged for goods and services).

Keep Britains workers British or at least European, though god knows how long until China becomes part of Europe the way the union is expanding.

[mrdonuts]

[QUOTE=nfoote;1139832]and what you hope to achieve by curbing the number of high earning, high spending, high tax-paying immigrants?
QUOTE]

i'll think you will find that very little tax is paid and the money "earned" heads out of this country back to wherever they came from

[mobi]

Mobi, can you clarify and/or provide source regarding this statement? I'm familiar with the 6th April 2010 changes to Tier 1 visas but am not sure what you mean here?

Just have a look around in UKBA website. This rule says if someones comes to UK via ICT route, he must leave UK after certain time. Before than, anyone under ICT (ie Tier 2) could count his time towards ILR. But now this is no longer possible.

However, if the candidate changes to general Tier 2, ie he then needs to pass thru resident market labour test, then he can count his time towards ILR.

[HairyArsedBloke]

However, if say a given employer in hypothetical land, after rigorous interviewing and testing, would give me (a foreigner) a job over you (a native) doesn't that imply your skills were indeed short?

No.

Terms and conditions are weaker for imported workers.
It allows companies to discriminate against older, disabled, etc.
It eliminates the need to train 'native' workers.
There is more control over the imported worker as there is always the threat of being sent home.
The imported worker tends to be younger.
.....

Also it is not in the long-term interests of the country. It limits the contributions to pension funds to support 'natives'. There is reduced motivation for youngsters to gain skills in the first place as there is little chance for them to be of benefit.

If the only imported workers that were allowed were for training and fees were a lot higher, the so-called skills shortage would disappear overnight.

[nfoote]

Indeed

There are rules on immigration that should only allow non EU workers in if there's a skills shortage, which there isn't. These rule are being abused to the detriment of indigenous workers who to be fair do deserve first bite of the cherry.

I see where you are coming from as this is the obvious issue with immigration .. ie "They're coming here and taking our jobs".

However, if say a given employer in hypothetical land, after rigorous interviewing and testing, would give me (a foreigner) a job over you (a native) doesn't that imply your skills were indeed short?
I know if I were an employer in a highly skilled field I would want to pick from candiates from the entire pool of human potential, not just a tiny subset boarded by some arbitrary lines in the sand?

The other way to look at it is to invert the persecptive;
Companies often give new jobs to current employees over new hires.
Sometimes familes give jobs to relatives over non-relatives.
Sometimes an employer will give a job to a local (aka native) rather than an out-of-towner. Even regional loyalities might factor into an employers decision (eg North vs South, Wales vs England, Brixton vs Chelsea etc etc).
Which ones are fair? Which are legal? Which are discrimination or biased?

See how it all depends on your persecptive? In the order of Self, Family, Neighhood, Town, City, County, Country, Union, Planet where do you draw the line of fair vs discrimination? Lines in the sand in my opinion.

Of course its all pretty useless debating it. The rules are the rules and we'll all operate within them (and try to bend them) to benefit ourselves the most

[gingerjedi]

It would also be interesting if some of you clarified why you hope the rules are tightened, why some of you think EU vs non-EU should make a difference, and what you hope to achieve by curbing the number of high earning, high spending, high tax-paying immigrants?

Ok I'll broach the elephant in the room.

There are rules on immigration that should only allow non EU workers in if there's a skills shortage, which there isn't. These rule are being abused to the detriment of indigenous workers who to be fair do deserve first bite of the cherry.

Nothing personal.

[nfoote]

Why do you hate us so?

Considering any changes to General Tier 1 (new HSMP) would be the 3rd lot of changes in only a year I certainly hope they don't shift the goal posts AGAIN. These are peoples lives you're toying with each time the rules change, I personally know a perfectly lovely girl who's been done over by a total of 3 visa rule changes in a row now

It would also be interesting if some of you clarified why you hope the rules are tightened, why some of you think EU vs non-EU should make a difference, and what you hope to achieve by curbing the number of high earning, high spending, high tax-paying immigrants?

The ICT route will be out of this area however, starting 6 April 2010, ICT candidates will no longer quality for permanent residency unless they move to Tier 2 general

Mobi, can you clarify and/or provide source regarding this statement? I'm familiar with the 6th April 2010 changes to Tier 1 visas but am not sure what you mean here?

[BolshieBastard]

~waits for all the squealy whinny people to say "use the search facility"~

Some people only join forums so they can say "use the seach" or "Google is your friend"...it really really makes them feel good to say it, they live....to say it.

UK Border Agency | Highly Skilled Migrant Programme

Highly Skilled Migrant Programme.

LOL! Yeah and my response would have been the search facility only brings up this thread!

I thought it may have been something to do with migrant workers. Thank **** that this should be bunged up!

[HairyArsedBloke]

With new govt in shape now (hope it will) what will happen to HSMP?

I'm sure that the same 'arrangements' that were there before will be entertained by the new management and can be made to suit any needs.

[dspsyssts]

Going to show my ignorance here but whats HSMP?

~waits for all the squealy whinny people to say "use the search facility"~

Some people only join forums so they can say "use the seach" or "Google is your friend"...it really really makes them feel good to say it, they live....to say it.

UK Border Agency | Highly Skilled Migrant Programme

Highly Skilled Migrant Programme.

[BolshieBastard]

Going to show my ignorance here but whats HSMP?

[stek]

There is no HSMP anymore, it's Tier 1 now.

My guess is they'll remove it, UK is the only EU country (apart from NL) with this type of work visa, ie one not bound to an employer. So I reckon to control immigration better all future visas will be employer sponsored.

Also say bye-bye to the 10 year and 14 year stay rules, and tighter rules for ILR and earned citizenship when it comes in in July. Oh, and more expensive than the already ridiculous fees as of now!