Reply to: Taking the bull by the horns...

[peterc2609]

I believe the 2nd interview is going to be a 20 min presentation... fingers crossed ha ha

[lukemg]

Your pay is likely to be going up 1% a year from now and any bonus will be a percentage of this, find out what the job should be paying, talk to the agent but don't keel over too quickly or you might resent it later.
I went perm in a crisis, at interview I was pressed on rates and indicated the lower end of the advertised range. After the offer I wanted the top end and we settled on just under that, they would have happily paid me much less, there were no hard feelings, it's business and they aren't paying it out of their own holiday fund.

[FiveTimes]

I'd let the agency do the talking for the permie job, I've done once before and the agent managed to get me an extra 7k

[peterc2609]

Things moved pretty quickly once I put my mind to it...

Had an interview today for a perm position... 50ish% less than I earned contracting. But a nice forward thinking, young company, 20 mins from home, in an amazing location (really picturesque), seems like they treat their staff well.

2nd interview next week, but they have already tried negotiating about £££... offering 5-7k less than I wanted originally, but throwing a LOT of training into the equation... and the rest of the package I havent discussed.

Should I let the agency do the discussions over pay!?!? I have never been in a position like this i.e. negotiating a perm job... usually its just about cold hard cash... now is callout, standby, training, holidays, shares, med insurance, mobile phones etc etc!

[lukemg]

All, I have been there, ridden the nice rates wave, bought the 911, then hit the skids, suddenly my ‘skills’ were pretty worthless, wished I had bought property, sorted a plan B etc etc so that I would not be relying on this dodgy profession. I went perm at a rate below my normal living expenses (60% pay cut), got a cheap car, burned through the warchest and panicked quite a lot. Any change of direction looks difficult without any experience, looks like you are back to rung one when all your tortoise peers in other professions are starting to overtake you and don’t seem to suffer the backward steps. BUT, you can make a change, pay for some training (ONLY do courses you know will help, you won’t get work straight away but they will help in the future and to re-package you), go perm (if you can) to stabilise things and give you breathing space, take a low paid contract/job/work away short term, if it means a change in the right direction e.g. project admin. Work hard on your CV to emphasise what you have done in that area e.g.assisted on a project even if you didn’t run it. If you aren’t already a coder, that is going to be a difficult mindset to get into if you are looking for the next gravy train (are you sure you are going to be good enough and that it won’t be off-shored – it will…)
The past and associated rates are gone, your current expenses need to reflect that, just be glad you had some time in the sun, lots never will ! 6 years on I am contract again in a different area and getting good rates when working. Stop flogging that dead horse, you need a plan if you want a change.

[Platypus]

In hindsight I'd have paid the mortgage off in the good times instead of going on expensive holidays and buying cars, if only I could have those few years again...

I bet like me you'd like just a couple more years on a good rate to sort yourself out... I sound like a drug addict.

So true - I've pissed away a fortune. Regrets? Actually, yes

[gingerjedi]

I can only agree with the general tone of this thread. If I think how much time I've wasted trawling job boards, rewriting and tweaking my C.V. and the tedious, pointless conversations with agencies over the last few months it makes me question this game completely.

Things have been bad before but not this bad. Unbelievably I still kid myself that any day now a contract will turn up with my name on it like it always has done in the past 15 years...

I recently interviewed for a role that paid 2.5% off my best ever rate, 2 weeks have passed and the agent has stopped trying to pretend I'm still in with a shout by being out of the office or in a meeting every time I call.

I thought the interview went well other than 1 or 2 soft questions that I could have done better on, I'm really beating myself up over this one as I came so close to great role on good money and close to home but as it stands I'm still on skid row with nothing at all in the pipeline.

If I knew this was going to continue for the foreseeable future then I'd take a bar job, run up more debts and retrain. On the other hand it could turn around any day on a new wave of optimism, anyone got a crystal ball?

[Worzel]

I can only agree with the general tone of this thread. If I think how much time I've wasted trawling job boards, rewriting and tweaking my C.V. and the tedious, pointless conversations with agencies over the last few months it makes me question this game completely.

Things have been bad before but not this bad. Unbelievably I still kid myself that any day now a contract will turn up with my name on it like it always has done in the past 15 years. I know that it only takes one contract to take me away from this nightmare for maybe a year or 2 and by then everything will be back to normal! I think the chances of this happening are diminishing with every week that passes so I've decided to start applying for perm jobs. The application process is painfully slow compared to contracts but i'm actually seeing some signs of hope and the 1 permie interview I've had so far was so easy compared to the typical contract grillings.

Fortunateley I have had a few good years and rather than blow it on expensive cars I decided to buy an expensive house instead! That's probably the best thing that contracting has done for me.

[expat]

I sympathise. Just having a partner and a house in somewhere other than where the work is can be a strain, at least I'm not missing out on my child's growing up. Though perhaps I am missing out on my own life and my partner's.

Again, if I include last year in the reckoning, contracting has not served me well recently. When I was young and stayed in a bed-sit near wherever I worked, it was great. If I factor in the travel costs that I have now, and the bench time, it's not a great career.

[peterc2609]

Mate... you are me.... just in a different place with an extra sprog!

The expensive trips to Dubai, New York etc, the X5s, and convertibles...

They were all fantastic, but wish I'd saved a bit now!!

I dont regret them but ... well.... there are always if's and but's!

[gingerjedi]

ha ha, I don't think that was the answer I was looking for!!

The truth hurts but deep down you know it's never going to be as good as it was, having a young family leaves you with few options I'm afraid.

In hindsight I'd have paid the mortgage of in the good times instead of going on expensive holidays and buying cars, if only I could have those few years again...

I bet like me you'd like just a couple more years on a good rate to sort yourself out... I sound like a drug addict.

[peterc2609]

ha ha, I don't think that was the answer I was looking for!!

[gingerjedi]

This morning I've had, suppose what you could call a 'Lightbulb moment' - I need to wake up and smell the coffee!

Two quotes to say how I'm feeling:

"If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door!"

"This is my only shot at life, so I'm not going to go down without a fight. I'd rather live with the consequences of my actions rather than the regrets of my inactions."

I finished my last contract only 2 weeks ago... I've only had 2 contracts. The first one lasted 4 years and paid really well... the next one was only 4 months, and meant me taking a 40% cut.

I got used to living on the higher money and suffered with the drop in pay.

My background is tech support, project implementations etc and I now know that this will no longer pay as much as it used to. I have my PRINCE2 but know that its nigh on impossible to get into Project Management without experience. I also have never certified my knowledge as I felt they were useless.

I now feel that I need to make a change, and go out and get what I want. Maybe learn something else in IT, or at least get my knowledge certified (Microsoft, VMWare, Citrix, HP etc)... I notice a lot of people on here seem to work on JAVA, are they all developers etc?

I also think that I'll have to work away from home (Merseyside) which will be incredibly difficult as I have a 1 year old.

Has anyone else been in this position before, what did you do? Did it work?

Thanks for your advice in advance.

I could have posted that except mine is 2 and I don't live on Merseyside.

I've been racking my brains over this for the last few months and I've came to the conclusion that going down the niche skills route to earn big bucks is not for me, this essentially means contracting isn't for me.

I got lucky and had some good contracts but the past couple of years have been rubbish, looking at my books I would have been better off as a perm and had a whole lot less stress.

So in answer my plan is to get used to having less money.

[MarillionFan]

I took a few months off and then started looking, it took another few months to get back into it.

I had a number of interviews and a few offers but eventually took a contract I didnt want. But it allows me to work at home a couple of days a week and manage my own time, so just using it as a resting stop.

Drop your rates for a local role for a while, get back into the swing and then try for something else.

Good luck

[peterc2609]

Don't get me wrong, its nice to be at home... but how long will home be home for? Money only lasts so long ans mortgages need paying!