Reply to: 5 years testing experience for 190 a day

[the_duderama]

I wish that dodgy agent the best of luck, but the goverment doesn't care, and i doubt the tories will.

What we should do is set up a company here that specialises in management consultancy, open an office in india. We could then import executives across using the ICT, then we could get our banks/telco's/whoever ran at 10% of the cost. The MP's might sit up and notice when they stop getting board positions.

[DodgyAgent]

Hey you're entitled to your opinion. Even if it is wrong!

Anyway, there seems to be a bit of confusion between what a tester does and what a test analyst does.

Lots of cocky developers call anyone who tests a 'tester.' Strange that you find absolute shedloads of defects in these sooper dooper development god's work!



Er if you dont give a toss about your job, then why are you making an issue about 'recruitment people' being 'shipped in'?

Well of course I care about my job, I am not sure that these people present much in the way of competition, but this is not my reason for highlighting this.
My issue as I said earlier is that intra company transfers of skilled IT people is a grey area as to whether it is necessary for outsourcers to bring people to the UK to "learn" about the systems they are taking over. My view is that this area of grey is being abused and used as a loophole to bring cheap labour to the UK to do work or components of work that are not appropriate to take offshore.. but it is difficult to determine.
In the case of HR or recruitment there is NO such grey area. If these companies need recruitment people here why do they need to bring them over from India? same goes for HR. If they are in need of HR resource here then surely it is inappropriate to bring HR people from India who are not versed in UK/EU practices and law.
it is not as if there is even any shortage of recruitment/HR people so there is no excuse for these people to be here.

[BolshieBastard]

Mmm. At the risk of getting flamed again. I would have thought this was quite a good a rate for testing.

I mean, and I do honestly mean, that testing isn't really on a par with the BA or Development part.

I mean, when you want to get competitive edge, fast results, Agile, Scrum call it what you want. Testing for me is pretty much at the end. A good developer & team should be able to test along the way and work with the client at the end. Ergo. It shouldn't really get paid as much.

Duck.

Hey you're entitled to your opinion. Even if it is wrong!

Anyway, there seems to be a bit of confusion between what a tester does and what a test analyst does.

Lots of cocky developers call anyone who tests a 'tester.' Strange that you find absolute shedloads of defects in these sooper dooper development god's work!

I dont give a tulip about my job, nor do I give a tulip about yours. The point is that shipping in IT people is a grey area that can possibly be justified, however shipping in HR and recruitment people is clearly outside the bounds of any international company transfer.
If these people are shipping in recruiters and HR people when there are thousands of uneducated idiots in the UK perfectly capable of fulfilling these roles then there is clearly an abuse of the system.

Er if you dont give a toss about your job, then why are you making an issue about 'recruitment people' being 'shipped in'?

[DodgyAgent]

Nicking your job as well now! Who'd have thought it?

I dont give a tulip about my job, nor do I give a tulip about yours. The point is that shipping in IT people is a grey area that can possibly be justified, however shipping in HR and recruitment people is clearly outside the bounds of any international company transfer.
If these people are shipping in recruiters and HR people when there are thousands of uneducated idiots in the UK perfectly capable of fulfilling these roles then there is clearly an abuse of the system.

[Ardesco]

Mmm. At the risk of getting flamed again. I would have thought this was quite a good a rate for testing.

I mean, and I do honestly mean, that testing isn't really on a par with the BA or Development part.

I mean, when you want to get competitive edge, fast results, Agile, Scrum call it what you want. Testing for me is pretty much at the end. A good developer & team should be able to test along the way and work with the client at the end. Ergo. It shouldn't really get paid as much.

Duck.

In a decent agile team the testers will be working hand in hand with the developers. Why would you want to take agile and then try to bolt on a waterfall testing phase ?

[MarillionFan]

Yes you can get almost trained monkies to blindly follow pre-written test scripts, but these people are not professional testers. Unfortunatly most peoples perception of a tester is just that, a trained monkey who will blindly follow pre-canned test scripts.

Ooo ooo ooo?

[MarillionFan]

http://www.jobserve.com/Telephony-Ne...35AF847D.jsjob

Hahaha. Is that rupees or pounds sterling?

Oh and you need to speak fluent English!

Mmm. At the risk of getting flamed again. I would have thought this was quite a good a rate for testing.

I mean, and I do honestly mean, that testing isn't really on a par with the BA or Development part.

I mean, when you want to get competitive edge, fast results, Agile, Scrum call it what you want. Testing for me is pretty much at the end. A good developer & team should be able to test along the way and work with the client at the end. Ergo. It shouldn't really get paid as much.

Duck.

[Ardesco]

you can't really compare the skill levels as they are completely different disciplines.

a good tester is invaluable. so is a good developer. both sides will always claim they are more important :-)

that said, testing does have a lot less barriers to entry. i suspect a lot of testers in gainful employment in the UK probably don't do many, if any, of the things you just mentioned. that's my experience of financial services, at any rate - worked in several different environments and with the exception of one dedicated performance testing team, the large in-house test teams were just following test scripts blindly.

When I say as skilled as a developer I don't mean we could kick the devs out of thier seats and write the code for them, what I mean is that we have a list of skills that is as long as the list of skills of a developer. I'm not claiming either is more important.

No dev = no code.
No tester usually = a crock of tulip is delivered.

Both are just as important as each other.

Yes you can get almost trained monkies to blindly follow pre-written test scripts, but these people are not professional testers. Unfortunatly most peoples perception of a tester is just that, a trained monkey who will blindly follow pre-canned test scripts.

[jim2406]

A good tester is just as skilled as a developer,
.

you can't really compare the skill levels as they are completely different disciplines.

a good tester is invaluable. so is a good developer. both sides will always claim they are more important :-)

that said, testing does have a lot less barriers to entry. i suspect a lot of testers in gainful employment in the UK probably don't do many, if any, of the things you just mentioned. that's my experience of financial services, at any rate - worked in several different environments and with the exception of one dedicated performance testing team, the large in-house test teams were just following test scripts blindly.

however i concede i may have just had bad luck in my dealings with test teams, and have no doubt there are some really good people out there.

[Ardesco]

200 ?

Testing, you guys need to get real. The reason it's outsourced is because the job is not intellectually demanding. You need to wake up and start realising that you have had it too good for far too long

You have obviously never worked with a real tester.

A proper professional tester has to wear many hats, among other things they:

• Set up test environments that replicate live environments.
• Write test harnesses (using programming languages, to be clear) to plug into components that devs have written so that they can test them.
• Administer test databases as well as validating that data entered into them has been inserted correctly, we even profile them from time to time to highlight performance issues caused by sloppy coding.
• We work with end users to both give them adhoc training on a new system and convert thier inane ramblings into proper defects as and when required.
• Do the actual testing, find lots of problems and get the devs to fix them so that the devs look like gods when the product goes live with virtually no issues at all.

Then you also have Performance testing, automated testing, white box testing, grey box testing, etc, etc.

A good tester is just as skilled as a developer, if you honestly belive I spend all day randomly clicking a screen until something goes wrong and have no technical background at all you need to either wake up and smell the coffee, or fire the incompetant tit who hired your current test team.

[BolshieBastard]

And here is another one:

Senior Manager HR - UK, Europe & Americas Tech Mahindra Limited

Location
United Kingdom
Industry
Information Technology and Services
Current •Senior Manager HR - UK, Europe & Americas at Tech Mahindra Limited
Past •Manager Human Resources Europe at Tech Mahindra Limited
•Assistant Manager HR - UK at Tech Mahindra Limited
•Assistant Manager Corporate HR at Tata Chemicals Limited
Assistant Manager Regional HR at Tata Chemicals Limited see less...

see all...
Education •University of Luton
•Aligarh Muslim University
Recommendations 5 people have recommended Asif
Connections 232 connections
Public Profilehttp://uk.linkedin.com/in/asifiqbalhrd
Summary
Chartered Member of CIPD (Chartered MCIPD), Full Member of Chartered Management Institute (MCMI), and Diplomate Training & Development (Dip T&D - ISTD).

HR generalist with UK master degree in Human Resource Management and demonstrable domestic and international experience in a comprehensive HR services (both at strategic and operational level).

The generalist experience includes People Policies, Performance Management, Employment Legislations/compliances, TUPE/ARD, HR Projects/M&A, T&D, Recruitment, International Employee Rewards and Employee Relations in a global and high demanding environment.

SpecialtiesRegional People Policies, Performance Management, Employment Legislations/compliances, TUPE/ARD, Recruitment, International Employee Rewards and ER

Experience
Senior Manager HR - UK, Europe & Americas Tech Mahindra Limited
Information Technology and Services industry

April 2008 – Present (1 year 11 months)

Leading and delivering end-to-end HR services from UK (European headquarter) for over 4000 full time staff spread across Europe (UK, Germany, Belgium, NL, Sweden, Italy and Swiss), USA, Canada and extending services to the top 10 Telecom service providers in UK, Europe and Americas.

Asif has 5 recommendations (5 co-workers) including:

Debi Prasad Das, Group Head-HR, Tech Mahindra
Sai Iyer, Delivery Director, Tech Mahindra
Manager Human Resources Europe Tech Mahindra Limited
Public Company; Information Technology and Services industry

April 2005 – March 2008 (3 years)

Assistant Manager HR - UK Tech Mahindra Limited
Public Company; Information Technology and Services industry

February 2004 – March 2005 (1 year 2 months)

Assistant Manager Corporate HR Tata Chemicals Limited
Public Company; Chemicals industry

May 2003 – January 2004 ( 9 months)

Facilitated regional and corporate HR for 3600 staff including IR, ER, Training, PMS, Rewards, Recruitment, Induction, contracts management, and corporate initiatives.

Assistant Manager Regional HR Tata Chemicals Limited
Information Technology and Services industry

September 2000 – April 2003 (2 years 8 months)

Education
University of Luton MSc Human Resource Management (CIPD)
2005 – 2007

Activities and Societies: Chartered Institute of Personnel Development (CIPD, UK), Chartered Management Institute (CMI, UK),
Aligarh Muslim University MA HRM
1997 – 1999

Activities and Societies: Secretary of the University Literary Club, AMU, and Student Organizer of the Club for Short Evening Courses and organized various University level literary events

Nicking your job as well now! Who'd have thought it?

[DodgyAgent]

And here is another one:

Senior Manager HR - UK, Europe & Americas Tech Mahindra Limited

Location
United Kingdom
Industry
Information Technology and Services
Current •Senior Manager HR - UK, Europe & Americas at Tech Mahindra Limited
Past •Manager Human Resources Europe at Tech Mahindra Limited
•Assistant Manager HR - UK at Tech Mahindra Limited
•Assistant Manager Corporate HR at Tata Chemicals Limited
Assistant Manager Regional HR at Tata Chemicals Limited see less...

see all...
Education •University of Luton
•Aligarh Muslim University
Recommendations 5 people have recommended Asif
Connections 232 connections
Public Profilehttp://uk.linkedin.com/in/asifiqbalhrd
Summary
Chartered Member of CIPD (Chartered MCIPD), Full Member of Chartered Management Institute (MCMI), and Diplomate Training & Development (Dip T&D - ISTD).

HR generalist with UK master degree in Human Resource Management and demonstrable domestic and international experience in a comprehensive HR services (both at strategic and operational level).

The generalist experience includes People Policies, Performance Management, Employment Legislations/compliances, TUPE/ARD, HR Projects/M&A, T&D, Recruitment, International Employee Rewards and Employee Relations in a global and high demanding environment.

SpecialtiesRegional People Policies, Performance Management, Employment Legislations/compliances, TUPE/ARD, Recruitment, International Employee Rewards and ER

Experience
Senior Manager HR - UK, Europe & Americas Tech Mahindra Limited
Information Technology and Services industry

April 2008 – Present (1 year 11 months)

Leading and delivering end-to-end HR services from UK (European headquarter) for over 4000 full time staff spread across Europe (UK, Germany, Belgium, NL, Sweden, Italy and Swiss), USA, Canada and extending services to the top 10 Telecom service providers in UK, Europe and Americas.

Asif has 5 recommendations (5 co-workers) including:

Debi Prasad Das, Group Head-HR, Tech Mahindra
Sai Iyer, Delivery Director, Tech Mahindra
Manager Human Resources Europe Tech Mahindra Limited
Public Company; Information Technology and Services industry

April 2005 – March 2008 (3 years)

Assistant Manager HR - UK Tech Mahindra Limited
Public Company; Information Technology and Services industry

February 2004 – March 2005 (1 year 2 months)

Assistant Manager Corporate HR Tata Chemicals Limited
Public Company; Chemicals industry

May 2003 – January 2004 ( 9 months)

Facilitated regional and corporate HR for 3600 staff including IR, ER, Training, PMS, Rewards, Recruitment, Induction, contracts management, and corporate initiatives.

Assistant Manager Regional HR Tata Chemicals Limited
Information Technology and Services industry

September 2000 – April 2003 (2 years 8 months)

Education
University of Luton MSc Human Resource Management (CIPD)
2005 – 2007

Activities and Societies: Chartered Institute of Personnel Development (CIPD, UK), Chartered Management Institute (CMI, UK),
Aligarh Muslim University MA HRM
1997 – 1999

Activities and Societies: Secretary of the University Literary Club, AMU, and Student Organizer of the Club for Short Evening Courses and organized various University level literary events

[DodgyAgent]

I found this CV on linkedin:

•Fulfilment Manager at Tech Talenta - a division of Tech Mahindra Ltd.
Past •Senior Executive at Tech Mahindra
•Member of HR Staff at Persistent Systems Pvt Ltd
Education •University of Pune
•University of Pune
Recommendations 8 people have recommended Yadavendra
Connections 220 connections
Websites•My Company
Public Profilehttp://uk.linkedin.com/pub/yadavendra-natu/2/9ab/493
Summary
An effective and challenging Recruitment professional, with an excellent delivery record, and a reputation for high quality and timely delivery.

An open and skilful communicator, with excellent stakeholder management skills, strong personal drive, integrity, and determination, who thrives in a challenging environment.

Is an effective team leader, builder and team player. Has considerable experience of working in an international environment

SpecialtiesWorkforce Management, Recruitment

Experience
Fulfilment Manager Tech Talenta - a division of Tech Mahindra Ltd.
Information Technology and Services industry

August 2007 – Present (2 years 7 months)

**** has 4 recommendations (2 managers, 2 co-workers) including:


Public Company; TECHM; Information Technology and Services industry

October 2005 – August 2007 (1 year 11 months)

July 2004 – October 2005 (1 year 4 months)

Education
University of Pune MBA HR
2002 – 2004

University of Pune BCS Computer Science

This guy is only qualified as an HR person. he is now working in recruitment in the UK. Where has there ever been a provision within the work permit system to enable people like this to apply for work permits?

[DodgyAgent]

What I would be interested in is where their recruitment people have come from. If they have British recruiters then fine, but I suspect that even their recruitment people have been shipped in on the back of intra company work permits.

I had a letter from my MP yesterday asking for details of Tecmahindra

[singhr]

Crabs.....

that's the funniest thing I've read on here all day