Reply to: What's my rate???

[tommyc]

What, and potentially save >20% off your tax bill? Nah, don't bother about it. Stay inside IR35, hell why not go through an umbrella company and then don't claim any expenses either.

Seriously though, get it looked at. You will kick yourself in a year's time when someone tells you that you could have traded outside IR35....

First thing I did when I read it was phoned him up and emailed him a copy. He thinks that as it stands I'm out, but with a couple of minor changes that client shouldn't really have a problem with then trading inside IR35 should be ok. Apparently the fact that I am dealing direct with the client and not through an agency means it should be easier to defend if HMRC start sticking their noses in.

[Wanderer]

Looking at my contract now it appears I might be out of IR35 after all.

Maybe I should give my old accountant a call..

What, and potentially save >20% off your tax bill? Nah, don't bother about it. Stay inside IR35, hell why not go through an umbrella company and then don't claim any expenses either.

Seriously though, get it looked at. You will kick yourself in a year's time when someone tells you that you could have traded outside IR35....

[tommyc]

now.. aside from the trolling discussion, RC makes a good point. I'm not an exceptional programmer (despite what my cv says) and they are not paying me that sort of rate.. in fact I think its fine.. (the project is in python in fact) my boss is understanding about my initial code being developed slowly and for the most part untidy and messy (although its still reasonably efficient) since I'm being given half finished code in a language I didn't know and using a strange (to me) database setup..

Having said that I remember why I left now. The finance world is tulip. Everyone arrives before 8, leaves well after 6 or even 7 and lunch break consists of popping out for a sandwich round the corner then coming back to eat at your desk while you get on with work (this of course is aside from the odd few that get to go expensing with clients). Head down, gob shut and produce working code definitely is the mantra.

I need to upskill (excel vba is valuable for finance but not much else) and move to another industry.. ok, I'll never be able to afford a house in london without the finance $$ but at least I'll have a life.

[nomadd]

Come on nomadd give it a go...

Nah, the more ya feed 'em, the more they demand to be fed.

I'm hoping one day Bolshie will find what he's truly looking for, and at that point find it in his heart to give all his fellow contractors a big:

[Drewster]

......your handle sums up your attitude on here: "Bolshie" and "Bastard". Couldn't have put it better myself.

What not even if you tried...

ObnoxiousTwunt
OdiousPotNoodler

Come on nomadd give it a go...

[nomadd]

Hahaha! ******* 'trolling'! You couldnt make it up. Pot, kettle, black anyone?

Anyone? I think you mean no-one.

I had responded to one of RC's posts, and quoted the appropriate section. RC posted additional points he made in the post which clarified the matter. And I perfectly accepted his response. Your post above added nothing, except another +1 to you troll post count.

Nope, I'm afraid I can't even begin to rival the Troll Monster status you have made for yourself on ContractorUK. Even your handle sums up your attitude on here: "Bolshie" and "Bastard". Couldn't have put it better myself.

[BolshieBastard]

The red ink made all the difference.

EDIT: And the bold font.

Hahaha! ******* 'trolling'! You couldnt make it up. Pot, kettle, black anyone?

[nomadd]

Now re-read what I wrote:

Do you see what I was saying now? I was providing the OP with ready-made excuses, not giving an opinion on open-source.

(posted using Firefox running on Ubuntu)

The red ink made all the difference.

EDIT: And the bold font.

[RichardCranium]

Hello, stalker.

Get a life.

[RichardCranium]

Welcome to 1984, RC.

Now re-read what I wrote:

So blame the crap db design, or their crap choice of compiler, or crap DBAs, or their choice of language, or crap architecture, or crap desktops, or whinging users. If they're using cheap open source rubbish, it should have been industry-strength proprietary instead. If they're using bloated proprietary rubbish, it should have been efficient, peer-reviewed, open source instead.

Do you see what I was saying now? I was providing the OP with ready-made excuses, not giving an opinion on open-source.

(posted using Firefox running on Ubuntu)

[NeverBeenNorthOfTheM25]

Welcome to 1984, RC.



You may not like/agree with open-source, but as a contractor, I know which side my bread is buttered. Going rates on Jobserve for open-source architects/designers/developers in banking are £500-£800 per day. That's too much money for me to ignore!

You tell em Nomad!

[memyselfandi]

Are you gifted? "Efficient and tidy code but written quickly". Only gifted programmers can do all three at once.

Sounds like a job for Bob Shawadiwadi to me.

[nomadd]

If they're using cheap open source rubbish, it should have been industry-strength proprietary instead.

Welcome to 1984, RC.

My current solution - just gone live - is a real-time FX system. Every single piece of it is based on open-source technology. And that also includes the OS (Linux) that it's running on.

My last system - again, based largely on open-source tools and technology - was a 14 million user customer self-service financial web based system. That system went live 6 months ago, and has received numerous industry awards (I know, as the permie PM keeps sending the details to me via email!)

The permie in the office on my current gig has just come back from the latest "Open Source Symposium" in London. I asked if I could look at all the "paperwork" he brought back with him. I'd say 90% of those in attendance were Banks/Financial; all were heavy users of open-source technology, and their roadmaps going forward were based upon it. A quick scan of Jobserve shows 90%+ of the roles in my line of work - Java - require the latest open-source tools as well to be on your cv.

You may not like/agree with open-source, but as a contractor, I know which side my bread is buttered. Going rates on Jobserve for open-source architects/designers/developers in banking are £500-£800 per day. That's too much money for me to ignore!

[TheFaQQer]

Elegant code is a luxury few organisations can afford these days.

And that's precisely the reason that the off-shore market is booming - if the client wanted something good, they would pay someone good to do it. Sadly, they don't seem to these days.

[RichardCranium]

Unfortunately think my manager wants tidy efficient code and quickly

Are you gifted? "Efficient and tidy code but written quickly". Only gifted programmers can do all three at once. Are they paying you Gifted Programmer Rates? No. Then bollocks to 'em. Programming is a creative art, not an engineering principle. You can't throw up a quick and dirty software system and expect it to work.

And if they want tidy, they can wait. What is this? Python? Your dissertation?

And anyway, unless you are working on real time systems, does 'efficient' really matter any more? Once the decision has been made to run the application on a windows platform, your code efficiency is irrelevant. So blame the crap db design, or their crap choice of compiler, or crap DBAs, or their choice of language, or crap architecture, or crap desktops, or whinging users. If they're using cheap open source rubbish, it should have been industry-strength proprietary instead. If they're using bloated proprietary rubbish, it should have been efficient, peer-reviewed, open source instead.

so don't have much choice other than to work my tits off to ensure the contract gets extended.

Sod that. That's permie thinking.

Head down, gob shut, keep producing working code without stupid bugs in it. That's what most organisations expect of programmers.