URGENT HELP: When do you quote your rate???

Re: rates

I give a basic rate prior to speaking to the client, but only if they insist upon it, and depending upon the position and where it is then I'll either up or down it. Hasn't failed yet, you just need to be confident and in charge when discussing such subjects as this.

rates

But how could I quote BEFORE I know about the contract/role itself?

I quote the rate for ME. If they want me to stuff envelopes on 600 a day, I'll do it.

If you say your rate is between 10 and 20, you'll find that miraculously, the client is prepared to pay between 8 and 10, so 10 it is. If you are going to quote a range, make sure it's you that is going to finalise the figure later on. It's your price, after all.
Generally, I quote my rate early on, and will only deviate a little bit up or down. The exception is when I am entering a new bit of business with very little knowledge of the facts - I might quote a wideish range in that case.

Oh, & managing a shop is loads harder than working in IT. I don't know why you expect it to pay less.

hehe..i was just say £10 PER DAY as an example! :P

WouldBeEnt: yeah, you are right..agency is with whoever pays them eh?....um.. :S i will see what happens.. :P

I pay my shop manager over £10 p/h. Get out of IT now!!!!

The bottom line is:

i) agents are on the side of the client since the client pays them

ii) agents are NOT on the side of the contractor since if they pay the contractor less then their margin is greater (unless they are on fixed margins)

So agents will screw the contractor on behalf of both themselves and the client.

I suspect there are many tricks that people on this board have picked up over their many years of experience but I bet the best is the one mentioned above by someone: always negotiate from a position of strength. If you can afford to walk away then you have nothing to lose.

Good plan I think I will do that.

But they often come back and say.. "eerr..this is a good opportunity....it is a longer term contract, and there might be possibility for extensions..etc.." you know, the salesman talk!! But these are all only possibilities...which might never happen!

I agree that agents & contractors do need to work together...but it is just that from my previous experience..I don't believe a word they say anymore...

Doesn't hurt to ask eh? if they couldn't pay me more...then I still can decide if I want to take it or not...espeiclally when they know that I am currently working, so I am not in a hurry to change.

This is how I would do it (I am not syaing it's the best way and I hope other readers will bring their contribution)

- when you have finihsed your 2nd interview, you will certainly talk to the agent. Remind the agent that you said "between £10 and £20". Make up some excuse (i.e. you've talked to the client and found out that the day will be quite intensive, or whatever) and say that in your opinion this role warrants something closer to £20 than £10.
- the agent will either say "oh, the client won't pay £20". Ask them to try and talk to them. The important thing is to not be an arse and start going "well I want £20 otherwise I'm not taking it". Ask the agent to look into it, that's all. Make sure he/she promises to look into it. Either they'll extract more money from the client, or they'll reduce their own cut. In my experience, they've done that before - in one case, I know for a fact that they didn't even ask the client for a rise, they just cut their rate - even though in their own words "we talked to the client and we are able to offer you £xx more". Anyway I didn't care, as long as I got what I wanted, I was happy.
- don't forget agents have to live too so it's normal they get a cut. I think relations between contractors and agents could be much friendlier if contractors kept that in mind. We work together. Having said that, if there is some slack in the margin, they will be able to pass some of it to you. That's why it's worth trying. And you never know, in some cases, they might genuinely go to the client to ask for more money (and they might even get it!)

um..valid points in all your posts...now i am all confused.

But how could I quote BEFORE I know about the contract/role itself?

Just that I am currently be ripped BIG TIME in my existing contract (I was new to UK and knew nothing about the market rate...so the agency ripped me off), so I try not to be in the same situation again.

I suppose I made a mistake by quoting the agency a range...i quoted £10-20 a day (for example) *depending on the opportunity*, and now the agency came back to me with £10 as the ball park figure, and I am going thru my final/2nd interview now.

Is it still too late? The client seems to be quite interested in me, as they are having a few roles which they are considering me for....maybe because I am cheaper than others? As I was told the market rate is around £20....

Shouldn't hurt if I ask the agency and be a little firm (but not too firm).. ?

Truthfully the negotiation isn't over until it appears in the contract.
Having said that you should not attend any interviews without agreeing to a ball park figure. If you don't get what you're happy with then aren't you wasting your time, the customer's time, etc. etc. ?

At least have some idea because the customer may then turn around and try to knock the money down (whilst you're trying to knock it up). That's business. It's a two way process.

So basically...I am still in a position to negotiate? Altho I have quoted a rought figure of £10-20 /day (for example)

I should go thru my 2nd interview, to understand the job in details, and if I could tell that the client wants me, and wants me bad...I should ask for more eh? Little commision is better than no commission I suppose?

So it is still ok to negotiate after I got offered...and I won't appear as not being professional in my negotiation. ???

My advice would be not to quote until you see the job spec which you'll know when you've seen the client and been offered the job.

At that stage the agent is in a position of real weakness and will be more likely to agree to pay you more just to ensure he gets the placement commission.

Of course a real businessman would have a good idea of the rate ballpark he charges for his services and would not allow an agent to pull the wool over his eyes.

I don't know what the general process is. I say early on what I charge. If they say the client won't pay anything like that, I say I'm not interested. This works for me because it's true.

If I sense that they would have paid much more, I ask myself whether I want this one, maybe there's a reason for that.

But I'm selling my services; if you're either marketing an unknown quantity, or just looking for a job, than you may need to play your cards closer to your chest.

but the rec con could just turn nasty and lose you the job. Its been done before !

When agency called me and asked me for what I am asking for...i said...'I expects around (for example) £10-20 day, depending on the opportunity'...

Then he told me about some contract, that they are willing to pay £10 a day...

I thought there is no point of discussing about the rate, UNTIL they actually want me. So i just went ahead with the initial interview. They seems to be quite pleased with me.

My question is...when do you discuss your FINAL rate?

I feel like £10 is too low for this particular role, is it too late to ask for £17.5? Or when they put u up for interviews, you are being interview at *this rate*? I feel that £20 is the market rate...so i am sure they are taking a big cut out of me....

What is the general process in the contracting world??

Thanks heaps