Con-trator-ing

[VectraMan]

Got a link for the case? I'd be interested in reading that judgement to see how wide it is and the specific circumstances.

After much googling, no I can't. Maybe I imagined it.

I'm sure it was on the BBC news site, probably 2 or 3 years ago.

[ASB]

There was a fairly high profile case of this a while back, and the judge ruled that employment implied ownership of similar work even if performed out of hours. The contract just makes it more explicit.

Got a link for the case? I'd be interested in reading that judgement to see how wide it is and the specific circumstances.

[VectraMan]

No, it's not reasonable. Anything you develop within the course of wrok or from work obtained info then fine, but that mobile phone killer app you devise in your time is yours (unless you have agreed to the contrary through the employment contract of course - and most do).

That's a moral opinion presumably, not a legal one.

I would imagine if you're working on boring banking software and come up with a killer mobile phone app in your spare time, you'd have a strong case as mobile phone apps aren't your employer's business. However if you're employed to come up with killer mobile phone apps, and you come up with a rival one in your spare time, then you'd have no legs to stand on. And I would think the same if you were employed as a software consultant, and had a software consultancy business in your spare time, or were employed to design and develop new software products, and came up with new software products in your spare time.

There was a fairly high profile case of this a while back, and the judge ruled that employment implied ownership of similar work even if performed out of hours. The contract just makes it more explicit.

But IANAL.

[ASB]

IANAL, but I wouldn't rely on the absence of any such clause either. If you are employed to develop software, then it's reasonable that any and all software you develop belongs to your employer.

No, it's not reasonable. Anything you develop within the course of wrok or from work obtained info then fine, but that mobile phone killer app you devise in your time is yours (unless you have agreed to the contrary through the employment contract of course - and most do).

Though I had the clause in my CofE updated to make it absolutely clear that whatever I might develop in my own time was mine.

[Amar]

any development in my own time whilst employed by them was owned by them - and they enforced it

I guess if i can get them to hire me as a contractor then the above would be limited to their contract only. Anything i develop for them belongs to them. But anything i develop for other guys will belong to other client. This confuses me though, you guys are saying that just because a company employs me, anything i develop belongs to them. I would agree with that as far as if the idea for the product comes from the company.

I will try to negotiate with them to hire me as a contractor instead of a permie. That way i could have multiple concurrent contracts going.
It would be in the interest of the permie company to hire me as a contractor because then they wont be giving me any benefits, holidays, sick pay. Plus they will save money on the employers insurance etc.

[VectraMan]

I bet the permie contract restricts this, my last permie contract stated that I had to inform the company if I did any other work, and any ideas, or any development in my own time whilst employed by them was owned by them - and they enforced it - one guy left with his idea that they rejected - developed it and made money - and they went to court and just took his business from him.

And rightly so. It's no different to a sales person taking all their contacts with them to a competitor.

IANAL, but I wouldn't rely on the absence of any such clause either. If you are employed to develop software, then it's reasonable that any and all software you develop belongs to your employer.

[blacjac]

I bet the permie contract restricts this, my last permie contract stated that I had to inform the company if I did any other work, and any ideas, or any development in my own time whilst employed by them was owned by them - and they enforced it - one guy left with his idea that they rejected - developed it and made money - and they went to court and just took his business from him.

I always thought these stories were urban myths and these clauses unenforceable.....

[FarmerPalmer]

I bet the permie contract restricts this, my last permie contract stated that I had to inform the company if I did any other work, and any ideas, or any development in my own time whilst employed by them was owned by them - and they enforced it - one guy left with his idea that they rejected - developed it and made money - and they went to court and just took his business from him.

[Sockpuppet]

I wouldn't want to mention it to my client, i have a good deal going there, been contracting for almost a year and they have another project starting in the next two months which has been promised to me.

Why. I've done several contracts at the same time. Just be up front with them.

[VectraMan]

This is insane. Why aren't you doing the second job as a contract?

[Amar]

chasing mhoney is fun

I accept your point about meetings etc, will discuss that with the friend who offered the job to me. I might have mentioned this already but the reply i got was that as long as the work gets done.

I wouldn't want to mention it to my client, i have a good deal going there, been contracting for almost a year and they have another project starting in the next two months which has been promised to me.

[Sockpuppet]

I am currently contracting through my LTD company. I am a software developer. Been contracting for almost 12 month with a new project in sight so i would be contracting with the same client for another year or so.

but I been offered a permanent position in the same field, working from home. The work involved isn't too challenging and pays 45% less than what i earn through my ltd company. But the offer and the job opportunity is not something i can just ignore. I Know i can do both jobs easily.

That's the spirit. Chase the cash.

But in order to do the jobs i will have to:

1) Work at the client site (contract work) monday -friday
2) Work from home on my permanent job in my own time + weekend if needed to get the required work completed.

My question is, whether this is legal?

Yes and no. but I'll cover the no bit later.

I can hire someone to help me out with the work to ensure i can deliver all work on time.

Again yes.

But my contract work will require me to be present at the site where as the permanent job is work from home , any time to get the job done.

I highly doubt that a permie job will never require you to be in an office somewhere at some time during the day. Or that you'll never need to phone a co-worker during the day or that you'll never need to goto meetings or you'll.... you get the idea. Do you think they're just going to say - go on design what the **** you like. No, they'll expect feedback and to monitor you.

They won't want to do that at 10pm on a Thursday evening.

You may want to work full time and then some but the rest of the western world seems to prefer hours usually sometime during daylight.

Another problem you will face is that as an employee everything you create belongs to your employer. It is legal to work for multiple employers yes, will they entertain the idea no.

Have you offered doing it for them as a contract?

Has anyone done this before?

No. It's a stupid idea.

Can you be the director of a company and be the employee of another company at the same time?

Yes.

Does the client or the employer need to know of this?

I don't know ask them. If you think you can get away with it them don't tell them if you don't want to. You won't.

I can guarantee you that the permie role won't want you to do this and will not allow it. Its not like they are stuck for options at the moment.

con-trator = contractors who go permanent

We have a funny jokes only rule. If we wanted pish jokes posting I'd encourage CM :-(




j/k CM

[ASB]

Nothing illegal. But contract you sign may have terms which prohibit it. That is, of course, a different problem.

[Amar]

(doh, spelt traitor wrong)

Hullo, I need some advice.

I am currently contracting through my LTD company. I am a software developer. Been contracting for almost 12 month with a new project in sight so i would be contracting with the same client for another year or so.

but I been offered a permanent position in the same field, working from home. The work involved isn't too challenging and pays 45% less than what i earn through my ltd company. But the offer and the job opportunity is not something i can just ignore. I Know i can do both jobs easily.

But in order to do the jobs i will have to:

1) Work at the client site (contract work) monday -friday
2) Work from home on my permanent job in my own time + weekend if needed to get the required work completed.

My question is, whether this is legal? I can hire someone to help me out with the work to ensure i can deliver all work on time. But my contract work will require me to be present at the site where as the permanent job is work from home , any time to get the job done.

Has anyone done this before? Can you be the director of a company and be the employee of another company at the same time?

Does the client or the employer need to know of this?

con-traitor = contractors who go permanent