Reply to: Bad form???

[Mailman_1]

No one is bullying anyone. The client is better at negotiating than this contractor, that's all. If they can get him at a rate then pile the work on and not have to pay of course they'll do it. Think like a business. Would CC or EDS agree to a contract then do loads of work for free?

Errr, that will be the reason i have secured an alternate role prior to handing in notice. I am thinking like a business. The agent is using bully tactics by saying they will take this contractor to court to try and force him to stay when they dont have a leg to stand on.

[Epiphone]

No one is bullying anyone. The client is better at negotiating than this contractor, that's all. If they can get him at a rate then pile the work on and not have to pay of course they'll do it. Think like a business. Would CC or EDS agree to a contract then do loads of work for free?

[rsingh]

Double your rate and insist it take affect in 4 weeks. State that non-acceptance by a particular date of the new rate will be considered as notice.

All the banks are doing it (with rate cuts) - why can't you?

[TykeMerc]

Hmmm. Ive advised the agent of my current stance and he is now advising that as i have no notice period or Terms of Reference in my contract, that i cannot leave no matter what the ClientCo has tasked me with doing and if i do i will be taken to court for breach and recovery of any lost revenue to the agency. My reply was that i have a jobspec advising me of the job i applied for and agreed to which he didnt like. I know the agent is talking out of his ar*e but these bully boy tactics arent doing him any good. It's making my descision a lot easier.

As you are very clearly aware they're trying to bully you and haven't got close to a leg to stand on. Tell them that you're more than happy to take it to court where you will test if the role discussed, agreed, contracted and paid for is the role that the client has tasked you with.
I assume you have at least some kind of email trail to show that you've been tasked with managing teams which is way more than engineering or being asked to lead one team.

If you're ok with leaving which in your position I would be then call their bluff, but make damn sure that you get paid for work done to this point and that you have good copies of signed timesheets to date as you might have to fight for any money they currently owe.

[The Agents View]

What is it you want renumbering exactly?

[nevergoingtopay]

Hmmm. Ive advised the agent of my current stance and he is now advising that as i have no notice period or Terms of Reference in my contract, that i cannot leave no matter what the ClientCo has tasked me with doing and if i do i will be taken to court for breach and recovery of any lost revenue to the agency. My reply was that i have a jobspec advising me of the job i applied for and agreed to which he didnt like. I know the agent is talking out of his ar*e but these bully boy tactics arent doing him any good. It's making my descision a lot easier.

Sounds like you signed yourself in to slavery...

Go sick until they sort it out, they can not make you work if you are ill!

You will be managing the project next week on the same rate!

[Mailman_1]

Ok that adds hugely to your bargaining power, you leave and it will cost them a lot to replace you, undoubtedly more than twice your rate over the long term.

They've admitted that you're filling more than one role, but they're not interested in entertaining an increase to your rate, leaving them in the lurch will open their eyes and they will pay to keep you or will pay a lot more to replace you.

Managing 50+ people on a rate agreed for an engineer is absurd.

Hmmm. Ive advised the agent of my current stance and he is now advising that as i have no notice period or Terms of Reference in my contract, that i cannot leave no matter what the ClientCo has tasked me with doing and if i do i will be taken to court for breach and recovery of any lost revenue to the agency. My reply was that i have a jobspec advising me of the job i applied for and agreed to which he didnt like. I know the agent is talking out of his ar*e but these bully boy tactics arent doing him any good. It's making my descision a lot easier.

[Mailman_1]

What is it you want renumbering exactly?

The number next to "Day Rate" on my contract....upwards.

[Sausage Surprise]

I am currently working for a large outsourcer on a large project. I applied for the role as an engineer at a set rate. I was taken on as a Tech Lead and agreed to do this at the same rate as initially stated. Contracts were signed etc and i started the role. I was then given the position of manager of the team i was TL for. I agreed to do this with no change to the rate. I was then put in charge of another team which is relevant to my role so i took that 1 on as well. Then i was told i was to manage another team also which totally conflicts with the other 2 teams i am managing. When i kicked up a fuss i was told that there is no-one else to do it as the company arent hiring any more managers. There has been no renumeration offered.

I have gone from applying for an engineer role at a set rate to managing 51 people and being tech lead for 2 of the 3 teams. I spoke to the agent regarding renumeration who agreed that i had a good case and went to the ClientCo. The ClientCo came back with "His role hasnt significantly changed to warrant a rate increase". I am also hiring people to work for me at higher rates than i am on.

I have since been offered another role at another outsourcer on the same money i am on at the moment in an engineer role with much less responsibility (and hassle) than the current role i am in. (Im not bothered about the lesser responsibility).

There is no notice clause in my current contract. Is it bad form of me to hand in my notice based on breach of contract. I feel the ClientCo are taking liberties by piling more work and responsibility on but supplying no renumeration and feel it would be poor business practice for myself to accept the changes without changes on my demands.

Opinions???

What is it you want renumbering exactly?

[NickNick]

Thats 1 of my quandries. Due to the secure nature of the role, they will not be able to replace me for at least 3 months. Its one of the reasons they have put it all on me, because they couldnt find any1 on the open market with the required skills and clearance in place. I like the role, the people, the project etc so dont really want to leave them in the sh*t. Its the bean counters that are causing the problems.

Damn, it *was* you next to the coffee machine this morning.

[TykeMerc]

Thats 1 of my quandries. Due to the secure nature of the role, they will not be able to replace me for at least 3 months. Its one of the reasons they have put it all on me, because they couldnt find any1 on the open market with the required skills and clearance in place. I like the role, the people, the project etc so dont really want to leave them in the sh*t. Its the bean counters that are causing the problems.

Ok that adds hugely to your bargaining power, you leave and it will cost them a lot to replace you, undoubtedly more than twice your rate over the long term.

They've admitted that you're filling more than one role, but they're not interested in entertaining an increase to your rate, leaving them in the lurch will open their eyes and they will pay to keep you or will pay a lot more to replace you.

Managing 50+ people on a rate agreed for an engineer is absurd.

[Mailman_1]

Haggle directly and a lot harder with the client Co. If they are putting you in charge of 50+ people they obviously rate you and will have a big headache if you resign. I'd say you are in strong position.

Thats 1 of my quandries. Due to the secure nature of the role, they will not be able to replace me for at least 3 months. Its one of the reasons they have put it all on me, because they couldnt find any1 on the open market with the required skills and clearance in place. I like the role, the people, the project etc so dont really want to leave them in the sh*t. Its the bean counters that are causing the problems.

[TykeMerc]

There is no notice clause in my current contract. Is it bad form of me to hand in my notice based on breach of contract. I feel the ClientCo are taking liberties by piling more work and responsibility on but supplying no renumeration and feel it would be poor business practice for myself to accept the changes without changes on my demands.

Opinions???

Normally my opinion is to see an existing contract through, but in the case you've described your current client is totally extracting the urine and I would have absolutely no qualms about giving them notice of your intention to terminate.

You've already pointed out that your role has changed significantly so the original contract is only valid through your own good will, you're entitled to withdraw that good will since they won't consider changing the rate to reflect the effort and responsibility changes.

As a gesture you can offer them a period of notice say a week or two, but if you do that make absolutely certain that you have acceptance in writing and all timesheets signed as they may well try to screw you by not paying.

They will of course have to recruit replacements for you to manage the teams and technical leads, so it would be cheaper for them to pay you a much higher rate than hire a couple of new people.

[NickNick]

This sounds almost exactly like a conversation I was earwigging on client site this morning. :O)

[rootsnall]

Haggle directly and a lot harder with the client Co. If they are putting you in charge of 50+ people they obviously rate you and will have a big headache if you resign. I'd say you are in strong position.