Reply to: No budget available, sorry!

[Denny]

Denny, you need to calm down a bit. Go and watch some daytime TV...

...whats on right now?

Trisha probably.

[ratewhore]

Denny, you need to calm down a bit. Go and watch some daytime TV...

...whats on right now?

[Denny]

Strange I thought 'real businesses' operated a concept of sales cost and pre-sales activities.

If the option of a 3 month service contract is on the table surely its worth a day of your time to appear willing.

Just wait until you start setting up direct contracts. You will be shocked at the amount of 'free' stuff you have to do to secure the gig. Try suggesting getting paid before a contract or PO is signed and you'll be laughed out of the building

Are you so bored you can't think straight?

What is on the table? The option of a 3 month service conrtract?

Sorry, I got the impression we were being 'sold' by the supplier - the agent. You comment should be directed at the agent, not the contractor.

Just wait until you start setting up direct contracts!!!

Well, with agencies involved, I'm not am I. I also have private clients and my negotiations with them are vastly different from what I would be 'allowed' to do through an agency. It is the agent that pays us not the client company and I've already signed my contract with the agency and normally carried out the service before I get paid for that portion of the work - whether on a weekly or monthly basis.

Stop pouring Brandy on your cornflakes.

[Mailman]

Barclays Capital by any chance? They seem to be busy at the moment....

It was indeed...just wish they would hurry up and throw some of that "business" my way!

Mailman

[hyperD]

Strange I thought 'real businesses' operated a concept of sales cost and pre-sales activities.

If the option of a 3 month service contract is on the table surely its worth a day of your time to appear willing.

Just wait until you start setting up direct contracts. You will be shocked at the amount of 'free' stuff you have to do to secure the gig. Try suggesting getting paid before a contract or PO is signed and you'll be laughed out of the building

I'll second that. Meetings clients, doing presentations, writing prototypes - all to get a contract - the client never pays for that while you are doing it. If you win, you can factor that in. If you lose, then onto the next client.

I can just imagine invoicing a client for a meeting held at his office!! LOL!

I have only once been offered some money to design a prototype in order to win the gig, and that was from a public sector organisation.

[boredsenseless]

Strange I thought 'real businesses' operated a concept of sales cost and pre-sales activities.

If the option of a 3 month service contract is on the table surely its worth a day of your time to appear willing.

Just wait until you start setting up direct contracts. You will be shocked at the amount of 'free' stuff you have to do to secure the gig. Try suggesting getting paid before a contract or PO is signed and you'll be laughed out of the building

[Denny]

Yes, I agree, but it is done becuase they don't have time to write proper specs. No manager wants to interview you to "plug you" for information. They want to interview you so they can hire you. But generally they hire a contractor becuase they have too much work on, and they don't have time to spend writing a proper job spec and getting it approved.

By all means try to charge a hiring manager for your time when he interviews you, but i don't think you stand much chance.

I did only a few weeks ago. I charged a day's rate plus travel costs and I got it.

[jonhoops]

Yes, I agree, but it is done becuase they don't have time to write proper specs. No manager wants to interview you to "plug you" for information. They want to interview you so they can hire you. But generally they hire a contractor becuase they have too much work on, and they don't have time to spend writing a proper job spec and getting it approved.

By all means try to charge a hiring manager for your time when he interviews you, but i don't think you stand much chance.

This is a flagrant abuse of the system. I send my CV to get the opportunities advertised not help HR refine their job specs or plug me for information during the interview. To do this means I am providing them a chargeable service not going for an interview.

Time this kind of thing was disallowed.

[Denny]

Job specs that are released nowdays were usually written a few years ago. Because all new ones have to be approved they use old ones to entice lots of CVs and then filter the response to find what they actually want. Recently a friend of mine went for an interview as a Support Analyst (Helpdesky almost) and ended up being offered a Business Analyst role.

This is a flagrant abuse of the system. I send my CV to get the opportunities advertised not help HR refine their job specs or plug me for information during the interview. To do this means I am providing them a chargeable service not going for an interview.

Time this kind of thing was disallowed.

[jonhoops]

Job specs that are released nowdays were usually written a few years ago. Because all new ones have to be approved they use old ones to entice lots of CVs and then filter the response to find what they actually want. Recently a friend of mine went for an interview as a Support Analyst (Helpdesky almost) and ended up being offered a Business Analyst role.

[Denny]

Have to say I would never travel far for an interview these days unless it was agreed it writing that i would be reimbursed, and I never wait more than a week after an interview before considering the role as 'gone cold'.

Telephone interviews are my preferred first contact as you often get to find out the job spec you were sent was totally inaccurate.

Makes you wonder why organisations use agencies to matchmake suitable candidates if the spec isn't even accurate. How can the agency do their job with such poor guidance?

[mcquiggd]

Barclays Capital by any chance? They seem to be busy at the moment....

[Mailman]

I had a phone interview with Barclays last week...ended up the role being discussed was completely different to the role mentioned in the job description (actually looking for an applications manager and not a infrastructure manager! ).

So the phone interview took up 20 minutes of my time as opposed to the several hours if I had to travel in to meet the person to only then find out the job description was complete sh1t!

Mailman

[mcquiggd]

...

Have to say I would never travel far for an interview these days unless it was agreed it writing that i would be reimbursed, and I never wait more than a week after an interview before considering the role as 'gone cold'.

Telephone interviews are my preferred first contact as you often get to find out the job spec you were sent was totally inaccurate.

[Denny]

Hi there,

I have been circulating my CV for the last month and have applied for quite a few jobs. I have had 3 interviews so far, all with very good feedback: I get the feeling i do very well during the interview, the agent confirms this to me the next day after having talked to the client, saying that i am their number one preference etc etc and then (in all three cases) i got the same outcome. One day the agent calls and tells me that the client decided that there is no budget at the moment BUT they might have some money in 2-3 months etc etc. Thank you very much for your time blah blah blah...

Did you have many of this sort of excuse before? If they didn't have the money, why they were interviewing, in some cases with "Immediate start" notes? Or it might be the agent talking rubbish?

Also, has any of you managed to get the contact information of the client during an interview? How can one ask for this info nicely? I am concerned that i am misrepresented

Thanks

I would never allow a situation like this arise anymore. Before I am submitted for any contract 'opportunity' I always get the agency to confirm in writing to me that the contract is 'live' and budgeted for. Of course, they could still lie, but it's up to the agency to find this out in advance of advertising for a role. As far as I'm concerned agents can only advertise real jobs by law and 'real' jobs means they have been budgeted for and live already ready to hire an external contractor - they're not maybe might be roles. Therefore, if nothing materialises later on or, worse still, I end up going to interviews before the budget has been agreed and subsequently gets turned down and they don't hire at all within a reasonable timeframe or else they change the spec significantly to render me unsuitable or change the start date to make waiting uneconomic then I treat the whole scenario as if I was duped into attending an interview for a job that didn't really exist. This paves the way to charge the agency/client for wasted material losses and any significant preparation time. I did this successfully a month or so ago after I went for three interviews for a role that differed substantially from the original spec as the interviews progressed and ultimately required skills that I didn't have even though there was an initial telephone interview which could have cleared up my unsuitability from day one. In the end I charged a day's fees + travel based on the original daily rate agreed.

It's the only way to go. It's the equivalent of charging a call out charge if you're a plumber wasting time appearing on someone's doorstep and finding the owner out or discovering that they actually wanted a decorator.

It also acts as a potent disincentive for agencies to pre-empt assignments that haven't really materialised as yet and put out false adverts. Contractors have the right to assume that their relationship with clients is strong enough to receive accurate and reliable information. If the client lies to them or the agency doesn't come clear about the real status of the 'role' then you can also bet they won't treat the agency (or your application) seriously when they do get your CVs. It is unforgiveable for interviews to be set up at contractors' expense to travel to only to find out the role wasn't really live at that time. Do that too many times, then you spend out a fortune in interviews for a lot of pointless free consultations.

My first choice now is to always request a telephone interview for roles outside my home town and grill the interviewer on the accuracy of the job spec etc. before agreeing to attend a face-to-face.

In case you're not aware, if you go for government roles you can claim back travel expenses by filling out their reimbursement forms. Worth considering if you're traipsing up to some far flung destination at considerable expense even if the role is bona fide and you even get offered it.