Reply to: Working in Germany without a visa?

<<I am currently in UK, with my own Limited company.

So I have been working in UK in the past 6 months, as I have the working holiday visa for UK.>>

Your working holiday visa does not allow you to work for your primary trade. By setting up a limited company you have broken the visa regulations.

I hope you get deported>:

..woops yes Freddy is quite right here (you only want to work 90 days, too busy reading the other mails). Just check up on the VAT, and the work permit. Shouldn´t be a problem.

simply billing a UK company does not exempt you from German tax

Yes, there's agreements in place all through the EU - if you spend over 180 days in any one country you're considered resident for tax in that country. A 90 day contract wouldn't mean you have to pay German tax, but you would have to pay UK tax (since that's where you're currently tax resident).

Just a point here, simply billing a UK company does not exempt you from German tax. The law is very clear on that. The Americans renewing their visas every three months were simply breaking the law (certainly they would after six months working, as they´re liable for German tax).

There are many people who come to Germany and simply evade tax. Sometimes they´re not aware of it.Some get away with it and some get caught.

The only way to clarify this is to take legal advice. As for residency I don´t see how a UK working visa allows you to work in Germany, but I´m not an expert. I know Americans who weren´t able to work in the UK although they had a German work permit.

If you can arrange everything through your UK company via the UK agency, then you would be subject to all the UK taxes etc. including UK VAT as you would be billing a UK agency.

IR35 is something you shouldn't be too worried about because eventually you will go home to Australia, at which point the UK IR will no longer be interested in you, but it always best to try and make the contract non-IR35 if you can.

If you work in Germany, you pay tax in Germany (although Americans have a special agreement.) I have seen people come over here from the UK thinking that they could get away with paying no tax and the men in long black coats coming along and investigating them, to their serious detriment (tax authorities here have probably more power than the police.)

"Why would they get suspicious of British traveling to and from Germany weekly"

They wouldn't, but they would get suspicious of an Aussie doing it.

Why? Because they would suspect (rightly in this case) that the individual was 'working' there.

Visiting a country "on Business" and "Working there" are not the same thing. A 'visa substitute' that entitles you visit on Business does not entitle you to work there. Visiting "On business" is usually considered to be doing something which you are not billing a local client for.

tim

Viking: what about tax-wise and IR35 stuff?

So I would just tell my job agent that because you will be the employment business, I will be able to work in Germany?

I am currently in UK, with my own Limited company.

So I have been working in UK in the past 6 months, as I have the working holiday visa for UK.

Chill out Panadol. Drop an email to those nice people at the dti who speak lots of English and are there to help you with silly little problems like this:

[email protected]

Wifey (who is British) has been working in Germany for the last year or so with a load of Yanks who also have the same problem as you, namely, they're not allowed to work in Germany without the appropriate visa.

They get round this by leaving Germany every couple of months or so and they are paid in the US (most are now suicidal 'cause the dollar has collapsed ).

If you have your own Ltd., company and the agency will pay you into your UK bank account, then go for it. All you have to do is keep going back to the UK as and when needed.

As far as accomodation is concerned, you should be able to get an apart-hotel which you can rent on a monthly basis, this will be cheaper than staying in a hotel, unless you can get the client to pay your expenses of course.

With Australian passport, I can (quote from embassy website in aust)..

"Australian citizens can enter Germany as a tourist or on business without at visa, if they stay there for 90 days or less."

So I can goto Germany anytime I want. In fact, I just came back for a business trip yesterday (not for my contract stuff tho)

The contract that was mentioned was for 3 months, so just 90 days. During the 3 months, I will probably be coming to back to London often (maybe every two weeks) and other parts of Europe for travelling.

Why would they get suspicious of British travelling to and from Germany weekly? Is it becaues they SHOULD be paying tax in Germany?

So would i be 'safe' to goto Germany to work? What should I tell my agent? I told him I am not sure if I can goto Germany for work cos of my visa.

So there are two questions here:

1) can you go to Germany at all?

2) can you then legally work there and bill through your Ltd.

OK.

1) Do you have a visa that allows you to do this? The UK is not in the Schengen Zone and the Germans can, and, at airports do, check the status of passports of every visitor from the UK (every time I fly back from the UK mine goes in their scanner and they can see all of my previous flights). If you need a visa for Gemany and you don't have one, they will turn you back. If you go back and forth every week, as many British contractors do, they will get very suspicious (they can't stop me doing this, but you - they can)

2) The generally accepted answer to this is NO - not just for you, but for everybody, but lots of Brits do it and don't get caught, so you wont be any different.

HTH

tim

Perhaps I should include my current status in my post...

I am currently in UK, with my own Limited company.

So I have been working in UK in the past 6 months, as I have the working holiday visa for UK.

However, I do not for Germany.

An England based agency called me and ask if I want to work in Germany, so I am wondering if I could or not, as the UK agency will be paying me right? and to my UK Limited company?

Your first problem would be getting paid - do they want to pay directly into your German bank account (which you can't open), or to your Ltd. company (which presumably don't have either, or umbrella co. etc...

Apart from that they'd never know you were there until you tried to leave & they'd notice your expired visa. You'd have trouble ever getting in again - possibly to any European country.

You're not a member of the EU, you're not entitled to a green card so theoretically you can't work here. However I would go to the German Embassy and ask, they're the most qualified to tell you.