Reply to: Advice needed - how to break into Project Management mainstream..

[Grinder]

This topic is a great read thanks to all everyone discussing above - I have been managing projects for 5 years in one organisation and I'm trying to break out into the real world. I acknowledge that the limited diversity means I have a lot to learn so I'll be looking up some of those books since I have a lot of time on my hands at the moment

I just wanted to add that I've been told my CV looks great, I tailor it for each role I apply for and yet I am struggling to get through to the interview stage.

The most likely reason is what I said above - having worked in one company, (& one business sector) appears to mean I am ineligible for contracts in other sectors.

I have also applied for Project Support roles (to gain experience in new sectors), and been told by agencies that their client will assume I would not stick around as soon as something more meaty comes along... therefore they would not submit my CV to their client.

I know I have a lot to offer both in terms of experience and ability... so I think its just going to be a waiting game. When I'm told there are 400 people applying for every role, hopefully its the same 400 people - so worst case I only need to apply for 399 positions then BINGO! I'm in.

[TykeMerc]

All very well and I agree but try telling THAT to the people that are offering jobs out there.......!!

That's why I have formal qualifications as well as experience.

Some years ago I was finding that lack of bits of paper was leaving tick boxes empty and the door closed.

I'm arrogant enough to think that my skills and experience compensate for easy enough to get formal qualifications.

I've worked with loads of people, managers, techies and business who feel that the bit of paper is all that's needed, it's a bit sad since many couldn't discover the difference between their own arse and elbow without careful and repeated explanation.

[Mustang]

Absolutely true, qualifications and memberships are for door opening and box ticking purposes, they don't provide the actual real world skills and experience needed by a proper PM.

All very well and I agree but try telling THAT to the people that are offering jobs out there.......!!

[TykeMerc]

I have to agree on the subject of Project Management Affiliations or Qualifications you are able to study for them, spend weeks, months or even years training to obtain them. Some, like Prince 2 I have been led to believe, are open book exams.

But the nature of a project means the most important abilities are to be able to motivate people, build relationships, solve problems and think on your feet.

Never come across a qualification or affiliation which teaches that.

Absolutely true, qualifications and memberships are for door opening and box ticking purposes, they don't provide the actual real world skills and experience needed by a proper PM.

[original PM]

I have to agree on the subject of Project Management Affiliations or Qualifications you are able to study for them, spend weeks, months or even years training to obtain them. Some, like Prince 2 I have been led to believe, are open book exams.

But the nature of a project means the most important abilities are to be able to motivate people, build relationships, solve problems and think on your feet.

Never come across a qualification or affiliation which teaches that.

[Svalbaard]

Continuing on from the question of PM qualifications to aim for, what about resources on the internet...?

Do any of you PM's recommend / avoid any particular websites or associations (such as Association of Project Managers or Project Management Institution)...?

Personally I avoid all such affiliations and in 10 years have not had one role, or been interviewed for a role that has made reference to either.

By all means do the paperwork and certifications; and I know it sounds cynical but people who value these meaningless affiliations are generally the PMs I'd not go near.

[TykeMerc]

Continuing on from the question of PM qualifications to aim for, what about resources on the internet...?

Do any of you PM's recommend / avoid any particular websites or associations (such as Association of Project Managers or Project Management Institution)...?

Well I'm a Member of the APM which is currently pushing for a Royal Charter, should that happen then Chartered Project Professional (I think that title sucks too) is on the cards. That being said MAPM isn't a major button pusher with many employers and probably won't be until the Charter is granted at which point it will become the de facto governance body for Project Management in the UK.

[techno]

Continuing on from the question of PM qualifications to aim for, what about resources on the internet...?

Do any of you PM's recommend / avoid any particular websites or associations (such as Association of Project Managers or Project Management Institution)...?

[poser]

Due to my lack of experience, ( started contracting at 22) I felt the best way was to work it and get my experience. I did a few project support roles, then moved on to a few project coordinator roles. each different projects and sectors widening my overall experience, now i am on my second junior project manager role and am starting to develop a core skillbase due to real life experience.

Though some people will disagree I felt it was better for me to work in contract roles and gained my experience as you are exposed to alot more alot quicker, and I took the attitude it was do or die, and i had to do well, so constantly learning and reading along the way as well as gettting real life experience helped alot and put the things i was reading into perspective.

I dont sell myslef as a PM at the moment, because ive seen and worked with alot of carp PM's, and do not want the stigma of carp PM attached to my reputation.I fim going to do something im going to do it properly. Im happy with my rate for my age and experience.

I have a prince 2 qualification, but found everywhere that asks for it never uses it. Prince 2 isnt the be all and end all of methodologies, it opened doors for me having it on my CV, but have only ever used elements of it. I think its important to have an understanding and an appreciation of other methodologies as you develop your style you will see you incorporate parts of different methodologies.

[contractprojectmanager]

With your experience I don't know why you couldn't get a contract Junior PM role..

From my experience it is possible, yes the market is bad, but you dont; need to work for £50 a day to get experience.

Would you consider working as a PMO or Project Support? You may be too senior but if you do this for a large Project you would learn loads about "how it is really done"

Good luck

Steven Mulhall
<mod note>Link removed - please see forum terms</mod note>

[Svalbaard]

Well put PM-J, very good advice. If I may add another book to your list...

Brilliant Project Management by Stephen Barker and Rob Cole.

More of a collection of organised crib notes but written in a humerous and conversational style to emphasise key project managagement concepts and practices, and is written independent of any particular PM method.

Having been a contract PM for 10 years now, my own view is that just being a plodding general project manager with a methodology certification is not going to be enough in the coming years. On your CV you should tie your PM skills tightly around, and focus on roles that will utilise your background business or technical skills so that your client is getting perceived value add.

Also, I wouldn't suggest embellishing your CV with untruths but a little exaggeration that you can talk around doesn't hurt.

Good luck.

[eyetie]

Thanks PM-Junkie for an toptoptop post.

As an ex-PM, I know how many bullsh*tters are out there having worked alongside them. Some are glorified account managers, some are overgrown developers, some are team leads who think they can pick up PMing along the way.

In my experience, the best thing you can do is get some serious reading done now because once you're in a project, you really won't have the time and every day counts.

I would learn agile XP as a complement to PRINCE2 or other methodologies. Agile is only the delivery mechanism for the SDLC and in no way manner or form a replacement for a proper understanding of the beginnings of a project (from business case and budget formulation) to the bitter end (reviews and deployment).

Also, you need to gauge a project to see if it's doable. If it sounds impossible in terms of time, money or your abilities/experience, you're on a hiding to nothing if you take it up. You'll work crazy hours, be lucky not to be fired midway if your stakeholders get the jitters and end up with the best case scenario being getting out with your reputation intact.

Good luck!

[PM-Junkie]

Yeah that would be useful and appreciated!

These are some of my faves...

Alpha Project Managers by Andrew Crowe - a cracking book based on interviews with top PMs, and discusses tricks they have used and the circumstances that they have used them. My personal fave.

Extreme Project Management by Doug DeCarlo - another great read that takes you a step on from Prince2 etc and into the real world

The Business Savvy Project Manager by Gary Heerkens - not the easiest read, but very useful material. Gets you thinking about how IT projects are viewed by non-IT people, and is very revealing

Change Activist by Carmel McConnell - not strictly a PM book, and it's a bit out of the box, but a fascinating read.

[chris79]

Good post PM-Junkie

I would certainly appreciate it if you could list some recommended reading for managing projects and maybe people management as well.

Thanks

Yeah that would be useful and appreciated!

[techno]

..........[*]read books on how other people have managed projects (let me know if you want any recommendations), [/LIST]
...........

Good post PM-Junkie

I would certainly appreciate it if you could list some recommended reading for managing projects and maybe people management as well.

Thanks