Reply to: Game Plan

[NickNick]

Nick - where are these jobs based and how are you being notified about them?

All the ones I've seen reecntly were in Swindon and Bristol. All asking for odd (to me) skillsets with acronyms like FICO

eg 450 a day Swindon
http://www.jobserve.com/W80D8C3AA677B81F2.jsjob
http://www.jobserve.com/W8FD7FADFBCE81C50.jsjob
http://www.jobserve.com/WA3C7C934ECF2535E.jsjob

and one at 500
http://www.jobserve.com/WDB8FD43D00E45B18.jsjob

Now they may all be the same job for all I know.

NN

[max]

Your skills are only worth what someone will pay for them,

Correct,

2. Be willing to be realistic about your rates. Rates outside of London have always been more realistic (i.e. not over-inflated to match their now worthless portfolios).

??? As you said, rates for your skills, including London, are what someone will pay for them.

They pay £500-600++ to attract the skill level they want, in the market. They are no less realistic than other places you speak off. They are just the market rate.

All rates are realistic!

People, by all means, follow this advice, that's partly how the market will correct itself.. people go perm, leave the country, and accept lower rates.

Surely this is common-sense...

[Billy Pilgrim]

Sound advice

Indeed it is. Beggars can't be choosers.

When my current gig ends I will apply for positions ANYWHERE...(as I tend to do anyway mind) my rationalle being that if I were a permie consultant I'd be expected to up sticks and work anywhere anyway -- may as well have as much say in the issue as possible!!

Based up in Manchester its about as easy to get to Brussels / The Dam etc and back Monday / Friday than it is London anyway....If you are based London then most Euro capitals will be a breeze to get to...perhaps easier than the cold, wet north of Engalnd or Scotland

Rates may be slightly lower, expenses will more than likely shoot up -- but so will experience and there won't be great big chunks of 'CV' missing if / when the market finally turns back in our favour.

And 75% of something is far greater than 100% of eff-all ;-)

[kanulondon]

I think one of the problems with London based contractors is that they can't see past Watford Gap. In good times, this isn't a problem, you'll always get work in London, but in bad times it means loads of London-based contractors who won't move out going for a smaller and smaller pot of jobs.

Having been through a few bad drops in the market, this one is likely to be far kinder to the flexible-mindset contractor than previous ones. When the dotcom bubble burst, internet based retailing was in its infancy, and companies who were dipping their toes withdrew quickly. Fast-forward 7 years to now, most retailers have an online business wich accounts for a large percentage of revenue, and it's usually automated so there's not much scope for cuts. Far easier to lose bricks and mortar assets and staff.

What is going to suffer is your £500 a day banking jobs, those rates were inflated in line with the rest of the banking sector's assets, and as soon as that bubble bursts so do the big rates. What will remain is your slightly less lucrative, but 'safer' retail internet contracts, in the £250-£350 a day range. Some of us have been milking that market quite happily for years anyway.

For anyone who says smugly that they wouldn't work for such 'low' rates, you're kidding yourself. Your skills are only worth what someone will pay for them, so any conceit in that department is a sure-fire walk to bankruptcy. There's a lot of bravura in the contracting world, my rate is bigger than yours, look at my wad, etc but boys will be boys. One day they'll kiss a girl and grow up a bit. Meanwhile, if you want to keep working through this recession you'll have to do some of the following:

1. Be willing to move. Doesn't have to be permanent or full-time. A weekly commute from London to Manchester or Leeds is only about 3 hours, you can do that. When jobs are scarce you have to widen your net geographically, and be willing to consider 'the provinces' because there are so many location-snobs out there, this immediately puts you ahead of the pack.

2. Be willing to be realistic about your rates. Rates outside of London have always been more realistic (i.e. not over-inflated to match their now worthless portfolios). £300 a day is a good rate outside the square mile. better doing 12 months at £300 a day during the recession than 6 months in the bench looking for that £500 a day contract and settling for £350 in the end anyway. It's a just a rate, it doesn't define you. It pays the bills.

3. Be prepared to be piecemeal. During the last rough patch, I did four 3 monthers in a row. One of them was a perm stint (they didn't know I was treating as just another short term contract Yes it was a little unsettling and not very joined up. but I was in work for the full year. Your security is based entirely on your ability to move quickly. Better to be in work than out, even if you're only covering your costs and saving your savings.

4. Don't be a bull in a bear market. I love it when I'm in great demand, it means I can be rude to agents. But in this market you have to bite your toungue and be prepared to play along with their games. I hate giving out references to fishers, for example, and usually refuse. But when things get tough, it might be best to 'groom' such agents - the more you may be a source of possible leads, the more you are in their minds. I'm not saying spill your address book to the first tulip-end who asks, but use it as a bargaining chip. Remember, your old boss at X Corp isn't putting pennies in your pocket right now is he, why should you 'protect' him from the indignity of a few cold callers? Your contact list is as asset - milk it.

HTH

Sound advice

[Spacecadet]

- Only work in the specific sector
- Only apply to roles within the M25
- Only work at a set rate

Its not that crazy, by specialising in a certain sector and within the M25 then getting a higher rate is easier as you become known in the industry and can say with evidence that you specialise in that field.

There are certain types of contracts that I would go for, even if I was offered something else at a higher rate. More experience in that certain area means potentially higher rates further down the line.

Having said that, I work anywhere outside of the M25 and I don't limit myself by industry, more by sub skill within a larger skillset area

[Spacecadet]

I am a BA looking for midland work at the moment - all the good roles need either NHS of Finance experiance at the moment,

I have both (or at least a CV, references and enough hands on experience to give the impression)

I think i might have applied for that one already though

[norrahe]

I am a BA looking for midland work at the moment - all the good roles need either NHS of Finance experiance at the moment,

Several roles in Northampton at the moment if you can get over there!

Would love to get that ever elusive contract in Northampton (live not far away), but most of those BA jobs available are looking for credit card or mortgage experience

Am looking in London as usual and most of my experience is in the insurance market, all the roles there have become very specific and you are lucky if there are more than one a week at the moment.

Difficult to crack other markets. but if anyone knows of any Senior Ba jobs going....

[zara_backdog]

I am a BA looking for midland work at the moment - all the good roles need either NHS of Finance experiance at the moment,

Several roles in Northampton at the moment if you can get over there!

[AlfredJPruffock]

It seems to an axiom in life - when you're looking for a contact - nothing much comes your way.

But ... when you're in a contact - why the past week Ive had twice as many agents trying to get my attention - but sorry chaps - happy where I am.

Them who have - they get.

[Liability]

Good post TBYJ and totally agree

Have a similar situ at work now - there are 3 guys who have been at the place I am for 4 years and so have got used to not doing much and getting paid too much [usual story I guess]. There arrogance has got the better of them when in all honesty and reality on Friday I had to tell them their tulipe and not as good as they think they are as they have de-skilled.

Each one of them have a plan [if you want to call it that]

- Only work in the specific sector
- Only apply to roles within the M25
- Only work at a set rate

Crazy to think there are people like this about

[Badger]

I think one of the problems with London based contractors is that they can't see past Watford Gap. In good times, this isn't a problem, you'll always get work in London, but in bad times it means loads of London-based contractors who won't move out going for a smaller and smaller pot of jobs.

Having been through a few bad drops in the market, this one is likely to be far kinder to the flexible-mindset contractor than previous ones. When the dotcom bubble burst, internet based retailing was in its infancy, and companies who were dipping their toes withdrew quickly. Fast-forward 7 years to now, most retailers have an online business wich accounts for a large percentage of revenue, and it's usually automated so there's not much scope for cuts. Far easier to lose bricks and mortar assets and staff.

What is going to suffer is your £500 a day banking jobs, those rates were inflated in line with the rest of the banking sector's assets, and as soon as that bubble bursts so do the big rates. What will remain is your slightly less lucrative, but 'safer' retail internet contracts, in the £250-£350 a day range. Some of us have been milking that market quite happily for years anyway.

For anyone who says smugly that they wouldn't work for such 'low' rates, you're kidding yourself. Your skills are only worth what someone will pay for them, so any conceit in that department is a sure-fire walk to bankruptcy. There's a lot of bravura in the contracting world, my rate is bigger than yours, look at my wad, etc but boys will be boys. One day they'll kiss a girl and grow up a bit. Meanwhile, if you want to keep working through this recession you'll have to do some of the following:

1. Be willing to move. Doesn't have to be permanent or full-time. A weekly commute from London to Manchester or Leeds is only about 3 hours, you can do that. When jobs are scarce you have to widen your net geographically, and be willing to consider 'the provinces' because there are so many location-snobs out there, this immediately puts you ahead of the pack.

2. Be willing to be realistic about your rates. Rates outside of London have always been more realistic (i.e. not over-inflated to match their now worthless portfolios). £300 a day is a good rate outside the square mile. better doing 12 months at £300 a day during the recession than 6 months in the bench looking for that £500 a day contract and settling for £350 in the end anyway. It's a just a rate, it doesn't define you. It pays the bills.

3. Be prepared to be piecemeal. During the last rough patch, I did four 3 monthers in a row. One of them was a perm stint (they didn't know I was treating as just another short term contract Yes it was a little unsettling and not very joined up. but I was in work for the full year. Your security is based entirely on your ability to move quickly. Better to be in work than out, even if you're only covering your costs and saving your savings.

4. Don't be a bull in a bear market. I love it when I'm in great demand, it means I can be rude to agents. But in this market you have to bite your toungue and be prepared to play along with their games. I hate giving out references to fishers, for example, and usually refuse. But when things get tough, it might be best to 'groom' such agents - the more you may be a source of possible leads, the more you are in their minds. I'm not saying spill your address book to the first tulip-end who asks, but use it as a bargaining chip. Remember, your old boss at X Corp isn't putting pennies in your pocket right now is he, why should you 'protect' him from the indignity of a few cold callers? Your contact list is as asset - milk it.

HTH

Superb post.

I live close enough to London to commute in for contracts and have done in the past, but at the moment there's nothing there for me so as TBYJ says you have to be flexible, I've done a few 4 week contracts and a few 1 day'ers all outside London meaning I've had to stay away from home. I'm currently in a, just about commutable, 3 month role again outside London, and at a London rate so these roles do exist, you just have to be prepared for them.

I'm a Northerner living in the South so that's maybe why I don't see London as the be all and end all of life and contracting.

[dmuk]

Thanks for all the comments.

The idea of waiting and seeing what happens in Jan/Feb next year doesn't seem all that attractive unless I spend the next two months on holiday (somewhere warm).

I have certainly been toying with the idea of heading outside the square mile. And reducing my rate is not a problem. I would prefer to be sitting in an office for a few pounds an hour than at home earning nothing.

Is it worth pursuing additional skills with all this free time? I don't expect to become a zen master, however are there minimum skills expected by some recruiters - ie on the IT side or data warehouse side?

Nick - where are these jobs based and how are you being notified about them?

[TheBigYinJames]

I think one of the problems with London based contractors is that they can't see past Watford Gap. In good times, this isn't a problem, you'll always get work in London, but in bad times it means loads of London-based contractors who won't move out going for a smaller and smaller pot of jobs.

Having been through a few bad drops in the market, this one is likely to be far kinder to the flexible-mindset contractor than previous ones. When the dotcom bubble burst, internet based retailing was in its infancy, and companies who were dipping their toes withdrew quickly. Fast-forward 7 years to now, most retailers have an online business wich accounts for a large percentage of revenue, and it's usually automated so there's not much scope for cuts. Far easier to lose bricks and mortar assets and staff.

What is going to suffer is your £500 a day banking jobs, those rates were inflated in line with the rest of the banking sector's assets, and as soon as that bubble bursts so do the big rates. What will remain is your slightly less lucrative, but 'safer' retail internet contracts, in the £250-£350 a day range. Some of us have been milking that market quite happily for years anyway.

For anyone who says smugly that they wouldn't work for such 'low' rates, you're kidding yourself. Your skills are only worth what someone will pay for them, so any conceit in that department is a sure-fire walk to bankruptcy. There's a lot of bravura in the contracting world, my rate is bigger than yours, look at my wad, etc but boys will be boys. One day they'll kiss a girl and grow up a bit. Meanwhile, if you want to keep working through this recession you'll have to do some of the following:

1. Be willing to move. Doesn't have to be permanent or full-time. A weekly commute from London to Manchester or Leeds is only about 3 hours, you can do that. When jobs are scarce you have to widen your net geographically, and be willing to consider 'the provinces' because there are so many location-snobs out there, this immediately puts you ahead of the pack.

2. Be willing to be realistic about your rates. Rates outside of London have always been more realistic (i.e. not over-inflated to match their now worthless portfolios). £300 a day is a good rate outside the square mile. better doing 12 months at £300 a day during the recession than 6 months in the bench looking for that £500 a day contract and settling for £350 in the end anyway. It's a just a rate, it doesn't define you. It pays the bills.

3. Be prepared to be piecemeal. During the last rough patch, I did four 3 monthers in a row. One of them was a perm stint (they didn't know I was treating as just another short term contract Yes it was a little unsettling and not very joined up. but I was in work for the full year. Your security is based entirely on your ability to move quickly. Better to be in work than out, even if you're only covering your costs and saving your savings.

4. Don't be a bull in a bear market. I love it when I'm in great demand, it means I can be rude to agents. But in this market you have to bite your toungue and be prepared to play along with their games. I hate giving out references to fishers, for example, and usually refuse. But when things get tough, it might be best to 'groom' such agents - the more you may be a source of possible leads, the more you are in their minds. I'm not saying spill your address book to the first tulip-end who asks, but use it as a bargaining chip. Remember, your old boss at X Corp isn't putting pennies in your pocket right now is he, why should you 'protect' him from the indignity of a few cold callers? Your contact list is as asset - milk it.

HTH

[NickNick]

Hey All,

With all this doom and gloom I am feeling less and less confident about finding a new contract in London. Banking and finance is not the place to be at the moment.

Thanks!

You are kidding? I get inundated with roles in Banking and finance outside of London at the moment in the £450-550 range. None of which I can get anywhere with because I've not worked in B&F. You not considered life away from the smoke?

[Liability]

Depending on your skillset - things are varied

Testing and BA work seems to be down and rates seem to have gone lower in the City - but other areas are actually on the rise and will continue to be

Ive been speaking with a fair few consultants whom I have good relations [not sexual] with and who are what Id call "good" consultants. They all are very busy with roles - in the PERMANENT space to give you an example this was what one of them said [who has placed me numerous times over the past 12 years]

4 months back he placed an add on the major boards for 5 architect and 3 testing roles - he got the usual 150 CV's of which 120 were from Olu in Nigera, Podazski in Poland and then the Graduate with no skills aside from a Degree - after he rejected them he was left with 30 of which 5 were actually good.

3 weeks back he had another 3 roles - he got 11 CV's!

He reckons that people do NOT want to move and will not and so he is finding it hard to fill the roles - what this means is that rates in the Perm sector will have to go up. Another thing he said was that clients are taking longer now to select the candidates as they think they are getting the best.

I reckon things WILL pick up slightly in Jan/Feb and then even more so in April as alot of companies want to ride out the Xmas period to see what happens in the wider market.