Reply to: Photographs for money laundering

[SueEllen]

Nobody, but agency folk don't make up their interpretation of these laws on their own.

They get a lawyer to look at it, who has no idea of the relationship between agency and contractor and then develop a policy that requires you to supply a photograph to comply with "money laundering" legislation.

It's more likely because the agency has given the lawyers part of the information when questioned.

Most lawyers are very through when they question you and if:
1. you are dumb
2. not very logical
3. to lazy to give the correct/full information
Then the lawyer will make their assumption on the way things work.

[Moscow Mule]

Who said anything about well educated lawyers?

Nobody, but agency folk don't make up their interpretation of these laws on their own.

They get a lawyer to look at it, who has no idea of the relationship between agency and contractor and then develop a policy that requires you to supply a photograph to comply with "money laundering" legislation.

[cykophysh39]

Almost every day, I'm amazed by the stupidity of very well educated lawyers.

Who said anything about well educated lawyers?

[Moscow Mule]

I was cited the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2004 (applies end of Feb 2007) as the reason for the ID requests; Employer need to verify that you're entitled to wok in the UK. The info supplied on the act goes on about Employer /Employee relationships; non-compliance on the part of the Employer can result in up to £10,000 fines. Sort of misses the point that if you are working through a LtdCo, you LtdCo is your employer?

Almost every day, I'm amazed by the stupidity of very well educated lawyers.

[Addanc]

I was cited the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2004 (applies end of Feb 2007) as the reason for the ID requests; Employer need to verify that you're entitled to wok in the UK. The info supplied on the act goes on about Employer /Employee relationships; non-compliance on the part of the Employer can result in up to £10,000 fines. Sort of misses the point that if you are working through a LtdCo, you LtdCo is your employer?

[beeker]

Do they ask the same questions of their office cleaning company?

[SueEllen]

The Deeper I get into this, the more I think this is just Agencies getting it completely wrong. So as a Limited company I have to get photographic ID of all directors of companies that I may have financial dealings with?

I pay for web hosting, so do I have to email the web hosting company and request Photographic ID of the Directors?

Do I need to get hold of BT and request they send me Photographic ID of thier directors?

Once I get the Photographic ID of all directors, what gives me the power to determine that it is valid?

All the agency needs to do is:
1. Get your name and address
2. Get your company's name, company number and registered address

Go to companies house and check the details match. If the details don't match then they can kick up a stink.

It's not actually hard to do. (I had it done on me yesterday when I was changing mobile network). The only reason they don't want to do it is because it may cost them a few quid but that should be reflected in their margin.

[Moscow Mule]

The Deeper I get into this, the more I think this is just Agencies getting it completely wrong. So as a Limited company I have to get photographic ID of all directors of companies that I may have financial dealings with?

I pay for web hosting, so do I have to email the web hosting company and request Photographic ID of the Directors?

Do I need to get hold of BT and request they send me Photographic ID of thier directors?

Once I get the Photographic ID of all directors, what gives me the power to determine that it is valid?

IIRC your agency doesn't have to comply with the KYC elements of the money laundering legislation. However, that aside, getting an un-notarised photo of any tom, dick or harry doesn't comply with the regs anyway.

[SueEllen]

Update - after a few conversations, I have been provided with the following information regarding reasons for the aforementioned form:

From what I can see, clause 1 is charge and rates for 07-08 and 3 relates to corporation tax?
from: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2007..._20070011_en_1

Not sure how this is applicable to the situation? Or am I looking at the wrong part of the Finance Bill 2007?

Also i'm told PSC and Ltd mean the same thing?!

They are talking out of their !!! as they clearly have no idea what they are talking about.

I would be tempted to write back to them on head paper with your company registered number and vat number, or an email with the similar information and inform them that:
1. Companies house provides a list of companies and their directors, and as the information they require is in this letter (email) it would not be hard for them to look the information up.
2. Copy and paste the parts of the Acts they are referring to stating what part of the act it is and state you cannot see any reference in those paragraphs to what they are referring to but to corporation tax rates etc.
3. That you need a written definition of a PSC as far as you are aware they don't exist. The definition they have given you means that builders, electricians and plumbers who are incorporated are PSCs.

State until they clear up this confusion you have been advised not to pass on duplicate information to them, and you look forward to their written response on this issue.

[cykophysh39]

The Deeper I get into this, the more I think this is just Agencies getting it completely wrong. So as a Limited company I have to get photographic ID of all directors of companies that I may have financial dealings with?

I pay for web hosting, so do I have to email the web hosting company and request Photographic ID of the Directors?

Do I need to get hold of BT and request they send me Photographic ID of thier directors?

Once I get the Photographic ID of all directors, what gives me the power to determine that it is valid?

At the end of the Day I am a SC cleared contractor. I am vetted on every contract that I go to. If there were anything dodgy about myself it would be picked up then. I still don't see why "Trotters Independent Recruiters" need to check my passport details. I am loath to provide these details to any TDH considering the work I do.

[Moscow Mule]

Update - after a few conversations, I have been provided with the following information regarding reasons for the aforementioned form:

Please refer to clause 1 and 3 of the agreement, in particular clause 3.1.3. Based on the MSC Regulations (the Finance Bill (and subsequently Act) 2007 Schedule 3 - Managed Service Companies) and the "Transfer of Debt Regulations" (the Finance Bill (and subsequently Act) 2007 Schedule 3 - Managed Service Companies and SI 2007 No 6666 The Income Tax (PAYE) (Amendment) Regulations 2007) we are obliged to ensure that the contractor is a Ltd company and not a PSC and that he is in control of his Ltd. Company. We require these details to ensure we comply with existing regulations and laws.

From what I can see, clause 1 is charge and rates for 07-08 and 3 relates to corporation tax?
from: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2007..._20070011_en_1

Not sure how this is applicable to the situation? Or am I looking at the wrong part of the Finance Bill 2007?

Also i'm told PSC and Ltd mean the same thing?!

Cheers for any help!
beeker.

There's no definition of a PSC in law.

They're referring to PArt 3 which is all about MSCs.

Basically they're after information about your company to prove you're the only person in charge of the company and that you're not an MSC so they don't get stung for your Tax & NI if you are defined by HMRC as an MSC.

It seems to be a bit of a blunt instrument really.

[Cheshire Cat]

Also i'm told PSC and Ltd mean the same thing?!

According to whom?

[beeker]

Update - after a few conversations, I have been provided with the following information regarding reasons for the aforementioned form:

Please refer to clause 1 and 3 of the agreement, in particular clause 3.1.3. Based on the MSC Regulations (the Finance Bill (and subsequently Act) 2007 Schedule 3 - Managed Service Companies) and the "Transfer of Debt Regulations" (the Finance Bill (and subsequently Act) 2007 Schedule 3 - Managed Service Companies and SI 2007 No 6666 The Income Tax (PAYE) (Amendment) Regulations 2007) we are obliged to ensure that the contractor is a Ltd company and not a PSC and that he is in control of his Ltd. Company. We require these details to ensure we comply with existing regulations and laws.

From what I can see, clause 1 is charge and rates for 07-08 and 3 relates to corporation tax?
from: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2007..._20070011_en_1

Not sure how this is applicable to the situation? Or am I looking at the wrong part of the Finance Bill 2007?

Also i'm told PSC and Ltd mean the same thing?!

Cheers for any help!
beeker.

[Dow Jones]

Creep

Sound advice from Herr Josef Frintzl. Is this how you kept your secret all these years?

[Ruprect]

Thanks SueEllen -

I have my own Limited Company which they are well aware of. I did think it sounded like it was beneficial to them and not to myself.

No definition of the PSC other then 'enter the name of your Service Provider (personal service company name). Which again confuses me (easily done) as I have my own limited company.


I'll indicate again that they have the relevant information with which to pay myCo and that I am not running a personal service company and as such cannot sign the document?!

Cross out/replace the offending phrase and initial this. If the agent queries it then tell him to GFH. They usually don't even read what you send back, and if they do they probably won't care anyway.