Reply to: Opt In/Out again !!!!!!!

[rootsnall]

you'd still have to wait after contract 8wks to be able to go direct.

Yes I know. The client is rolling out to different sites and there is a good chance there will be an 8+ week gap in there once the current site goes live.

OOPS ! Kept showing a network error !?

[rootsnall]

you'd still have to wait after contract 8wks to be able to go direct.

Yes I know. The client is rolling out to different sites and there is a good chance there will be an 8+ week gap in there once the current site goes live.

[rootsnall]

you'd still have to wait after contract 8wks to be able to go direct.

Yes I know. The client is rolling out to different sites and there is a good chance there will be an 8+ week gap in there once the current site goes live.

[scooby]

Update 92 - followed your advice as above. Just got the signed contract back, no mention of the 'missing' Opt Out letter I accidently forgot to put in the envelope. Potentially could be fun as the client PM is an agent hater and keen to get me direct in the future.

you'd still have to wait after contract 8wks to be able to go direct.

[rootsnall]

I would just sign the contract and return it. Not bother with the opt out notice, and not write a covering letter.

Update 92 - followed your advice as above. Just got the signed contract back, no mention of the 'missing' Opt Out letter I accidently forgot to put in the envelope. Potentially could be fun as the client PM is an agent hater and keen to get me direct in the future.

[r0bly0ns]

Some will suggest that agencies will threaten a black list, but never really do - they need you as much as you need them in the long run. If there is a chance that they can sell you in, then they will do.

I would agree with TheFaQQer here, if one of your customers messed you around a bit and really peed you off in the short term, would you ignore them 6 months later if you thought your buisniess could make some moeny out of them?

Agencies are just businesses, and on the whole the agents are paid on comission. They won't care about what happened yesterday, just what commision they can make tomorrow......

[TheFaQQer]

Just a little update, got the real contract in the post and the opt out paperwork explicitly states that it should be signed before the introduction to the client or it's not valid. Do I sign it and forget it !? Or go for Round 2 !? I'm thinking it's time for Round 2. I might just do it through the post, send the signed contract and put in a letter saying it is not possible to now sign the opt out paperwork. Hopefully they'll just file it away and forget it once they realise they've got an awkward bugger. The problem with doing this is you get a black mark from the agency, I haven't worked for them before but I know they are now preferred supplier at one place I've worked a few times.

Hmmmm - decisions, decisions.

I would just sign the contract and return it. Not bother with the opt out notice, and not write a covering letter.

Some will suggest that agencies will threaten a black list, but never really do - they need you as much as you need them in the long run. If there is a chance that they can sell you in, then they will do.

The agency I argued with last year about opting out after interviewing, sent me an email in October (contract started in June) saying that they hadn't got an opt out letter so could I send them one. I ignored it and never heard any more from them about it.

[Turion]

[rootsnall]

Just a little update, got the real contract in the post and the opt out paperwork explicitly states that it should be signed before the introduction to the client or it's not valid. Do I sign it and forget it !? Or go for Round 2 !? I'm thinking it's time for Round 2. I might just do it through the post, send the signed contract and put in a letter saying it is not possible to now sign the opt out paperwork. Hopefully they'll just file it away and forget it once they realise they've got an awkward bugger. The problem with doing this is you get a black mark from the agency, I haven't worked for them before but I know they are now preferred supplier at one place I've worked a few times.

[TheFaQQer]

If you walk off site it leaves you losing money and to potentially being replaced. In the end the client does not care for the contractor. He is paying the agency to supply someone. It will be your word against the agency. Client should not be involved. If he see's you as unreliable he will ask for a replacement. Remember the agency will have a business relationship with the client. They can terminate and replace you at will.

If the client is aware of the situation, then they are unlikely to look for a replacement and cencel the contract. They are more likely to me cross with the EB about messing it up - the last thing they want to do is to go through the interview stage again to find someone suitable. Unless you are a rent-a-temp, in which case then it probably will lose you the whole contract.

Emphasize with the client that you are unable to work at the moment (not that you don't want to), because the agency has sent you a contract that you cannot sign. The agency is suggesting that you work through it while you agree the new contract, but this is not valid legally, so would put your company and the client in a difficult situation if there was any problem later on. The client will not want someone there who potentially isn't insured because they haven't got a contract, and will argue with the EB about why they aren't doing the job that they are being paid for.

It might cost you a day or so of no income, but at the end of the day you will be in a much stronger position.

As I said earlier, in 99% of cases this will be resolved amicably, so not issues. If not, you can go your own way. Take it or leave it. In this situation I would probably start looking for a new contract whilst still working at the site, and then leave when something else came up. 100% Cash flow is maintained.

Of course, it depends on if you have the ability to give notice or not. If the contract in place doesn't give you the right to give notice, then you would need to argue that there has been a material breach of conditions (rather than warranty) which is much harder to prove later down the line when you have been working to an implied contract. Otherwise, you will need to break the contract, leaving you open to more problems that I wouldn't want to try and defend.

[Epiphone]

Reality on the ground meant I had to be here this morning. I'd say I've started without signed contracts more times than I have started with one.

I've had that too. Trick is to send the agent an email saying you're setting off to ClientCo purely out of goodwill to meet the team you'll be working with. You haven't accepted their contract yet and won't be raising any invoices.

They can't get back to you before you get to site so your terms take precedence. Has worked for me at least 3 times. Amended contracts in my Inbox before I've got to the car park.

[The Lone Gunman]

Calm down ! Calm down ! Rate now amended in the written contract.

Well done Roots. Glad you didnt have to fet drastic. You are still opted in BTW so check the terms reflect the law.

[The Lone Gunman]

It would never come to a court case. Why would it? It it wasn't sorted to all parties satisfaction the contract would terminated by one or other and they go their own ways.

It would go to court IF a number of things happen.
Lets go with your idea.
Sit down and work with a contract showing a decreased rate. Lets just make it 1 pound per hour.
You ring them to inform them of their mistake and they say they will look into it.
First question. How long do you let this situation continue?
Lets say you get to your first invoice after 1 month.
The agent rejects your invoice because it is 320 (+ VAT) pounds too much. They refuse to pay your entire invoice.
Are you telling me you would just agree to differ, refile at the lower rate and then walk? Or would you just walk without a penny?
If you refile you are effectively accepting the lower rate and would have to break the contract to walk away.
If you dont refile they may refuse to pay any of the monies owed.

You have to do something about it straight away and be prepared to walk.

[rootsnall]

Calm down ! Calm down ! Rate now amended in the written contract.

[Turion]

Turion: When the judge asks if you had a contract in your hand when you sat down to work what would your answer be?
When s/he then asks what was the agreed rate (and other terms) stated in the contract what would your answer be?

The contract you have in your hand is the one you are agreeing to if you start work. If you dont have one then your emails and verbal agreements are evidence. Starting work is accepting the contract in place.

The first thing you have to do in these circumstances is to flag the error. In the worst case you need to leave site.
From what I have read this agent doesnt sound to be of the first water. Drastic action may be required.
Walking off site may be only a symbolic gesture and may only require a quick nip to the coffee machine to make a call on your moby, but this gesture is required and can not be misconstrued.

It would never come to a court case. Why would it? It it wasn't sorted to all parties satisfaction the contract would terminated by one or other and they go their own ways.