Reply to: Extension -- getting rid of the agent

[Lee Warwick]

I see. I must be part of some conspiracy because I have an adult view of working as a contractor and wouldn't consider shafting a client (that's what an agent is BTW).

An outsider reading this forum would get a very warped view of the world. They 'd think all agents are evil hucksters and contractors are unethical, bitter little children.

Fortunately it's not like that in real life.

You a pimp?

I bet he is....a birdie tells me that the no of pimps joining CUK is on the rise, so as to keep a tab on whats happening among the contractors like us

[oracleslave]

No thought here of ethics or honour or anything right? Just shaft anyone and everyone as long as it's legal. Yep that's the way I want to be remembered.

You a pimp?

[Lee Warwick]

No thought here of ethics or honour or anything right? Just shaft anyone and everyone as long as it's legal. Yep that's the way I want to be remembered.

[TheFaQQer]

And how mamy TPD posts do you have?

Denny: 0 TPD Posts
BI: 4382 TPD Posts

Denny: A mere 1.29 CUK posts per day
BI: 63.29 CUK posts per day

[TheFaQQer]

What does EB stand for btw?

Employment Business.

There is a legal distinction between an Agency and an Employment Business - no doubt Denny will be able to explain it better than I, so I won't attempt to do so.

[BrilloPad]

Brown Issue is inattentive in class and if he is going to make anything of his life (on CUK), he must try harder.

And how mamy TPD posts do you have?

[beaker]

I disagree with your starting premis' here.

First of all, the EB does not 'find the contractor the gig.' This is a typical recruitment industry, well marketed misconception that leads contractors up a blind alley in trying to understand the nature of the EB to contractor relationship. It serves no other purpose but to exploit and deceive. So don't be deceived.... The truth is this:

The EB introduces the contractor to the client who has themselves generated or found the gig from within their own organisation for the EB to advertise or source for. The EB doesn't magic wand a requirement that wasn't there. It's not their job to generate roles or gigs for contractors, only to source for existing requirements.

The gig is won by the contractor themselves who uses their past experience on their CV (business profile), business accumen and knowledge at the interview (business meeting, call it what you will) to generate a contractual arrangement for a negotiated fee paid directly to the EB who then pays a proportion to the contractor.

Once you look at it like this, there is little justification for renewal percentage mark ups based on the initial work undertaken to source and negotiate the rate the contractor can make. True, there is the continued payroll service the EB is responsible for, but is that worth the same mark up as the initial mark up? I would suggest not.

Also, your second premis is wrong: you say the EBs are 'experts in selling.' But what exactly are they selling, when they are dealing with contractors? They have no product, they have no service either. That's why clients don't value the work they put in which is simply residual admin tasks all businesses undertake. They surely can't be providing contractors' services either because they haven't paid for the right to do this. We have our own limited cos, so we must be providing the service, not the EB. We can't both be doing it.

If there was some produce or service the EB is 'selling' there would be some obvious value there that the client would pay for as a one off fee (for advertising, sourcing etc.) Instead, alll their revenues are wholly generated from the work put in by the contractor once the gig begins leading to familiar complaints on here and other forums that the contractors are being diddled out of money they should have got instead - particularly when the mark ups are regarded as unreasonably high.

"If an agent is taking 1/5 of your pay" [Adesco]
Thanks Adesco. That's the second useful thing you have added, that help shore up my answer considerably. Mainly because it highlights the anomolies I have already given.

What does EB stand for btw?

I think most recruitment agencies (let's face it, that's what they call themselves) see themselves as providing a service to a client. The service is sourcing a contract worker and usually, but not always, handling the payroll for the contractor for the length of their engagement. They do this in return for a commission. They do not position themselves as introduction agencies.

Of course clients would prefer not to have to pay an agency to do this but most do because they do not want to pay for headcount to handle recruitment and they want to outsource activities that they do not consider "core business". I would argue that recruitment is absolutely core business, but anyway...

If you contract through an agency you can expect they will take a cut of the amount the client pays them for as long as you work with that client. If you don't like it, try and negotiate different terms with the agency or find contracts yourself.

[TheFaQQer]

How much do u think is the normal % for a PS??

No more than 16.

My current one is on 9.9% and they are pretty big.

[Denny]

Fail.

: BrowneIssue

I forgot to mention on your report that you are often cheeky to the teacher as well. So I'll give myself a D- on that one.

[BrowneIssue]

Brown Issue

Fail.

: BrowneIssue

[BrowneIssue]

Just think yourself lucky I am not your mother who can soon check your school report uploaded by the teachers on-line instead of relying on a drastically altered paper version found crumpled up in your trouser pocket two weeks after it was issued, along with a half eaten bag of crisps.

Report:
Grade: D- Brown Issue is inattentive in class and if he is going to make anything of his life (on CUK), he must try harder.

By the time I was 17 in 1982 I was assembling micros from components in school. From what I have seen of the people looking after IT systems in schools, I am supremely confident that any little tulips like I was will be writing their own reports and grades.

(Presumably it is because you're not my mother that you patronise so?)

[Denny]

Not if you've opted in (yes, technically "not opted out") they can't.

What is it that you don't understand about such clauses being void and being replaced by the statutory ones (in both contracts)?



only up to 14 weeks.

tim

There is some debate about this, clearly. This is not what I was told much to my dismay. But it wouldn't surprise me if what you say is correct.

[Denny]

Kewl! I was right about something!

Just think yourself lucky I am not your mother who can soon check your school report uploaded by the teachers on-line instead of relying on a drastically altered paper version found crumpled up in your trouser pocket two weeks after it was issued, along with a half eaten bag of crisps.

Report:
Grade: D- Brown Issue is inattentive in class and if he is going to make anything of his life (on CUK), he must try harder.

[BrowneIssue]

I suspect I'm going to regret this...

I disagree with your starting premis' here... Also, your second premis is wrong...

Kewl! I was right about something!