Reply to: Contractor indemnifying Agency

[peace]

Right to terminate, whether good or bad for IR35, can be argued in any way. For me, this is not about being inside or outside. Its just that even I should have the right to walk off, not wait for the current period to expire.
Electrician, plumber,.. all are paid by the task they do, not hourly/daily. That logic doesnt apply to daily rate contractors, where its not essentially a single task/project finished till the end.

Agent - its a financial client. And I wont walk off for this clause. Anyhow, the agency has agreed to add the right on my part.

I am more concerned of 1st point, which I am still discussing with the agency. Explained them from my side and what Sue suggested. Lets see..

[Muttley08]

Before you walk consider two things:

1. What are the chances of them terminating the contract for "no good reason"?
2. If they do terminate for "no good reason" what is the risk to you? well it is a month's notice is it not.

But yes be all means negotiate with them anyway. Is it an energy company that you are going to?

Good points - if you go in, do a good job, then there wont be a problem - you've got the agency wanting to keep you there, and they aint gona mess you about. If it's not a good gig and they're playing silly sausages (avoiding childish swear words filter on this poxy thing), then don't worry move on....I always think if it's a good place, you can impress and then everything's in your control agents and client.

[beaker]

Bl**** agents!

I've opened a can of worms...

[SueEllen]

But yes be all means negotiate with them anyway. Is it an energy company that you are going to?

Bl**** agents!

[DodgyAgent]

1. The agency is trying to ensure that you are not a employee but if you operate under a limited company/umbrella company then you can't be an employee as the contract is with your limited company/umbrella company not you as an individual so the clause is not needed. So get it removed.

2. Allowing them to terminate the contract for no good reason is unfair on your business. Get it altered.

If they refuse to then you are going to have to walk.

Before you walk consider two things:

1. What are the chances of them terminating the contract for "no good reason"?
2. If they do terminate for "no good reason" what is the risk to you? well it is a month's notice is it not.

But yes be all means negotiate with them anyway. Is it an energy company that you are going to?

[To BI or not to BI?]

My builder did.

Mind you he wasn't a very nice person.

See? Not a nice person, hence he should fail IR35. It's that simple!!

[TheFaQQer]

It's the usual old story. If you hire an electrician to sort out your home, he's not going to give you a notice period and freck off half way through the job, is he?

My builder did.

Mind you he wasn't a very nice person.

[To BI or not to BI?]

It's an interesting debate - if you haven't got the right to give notice, it could be argued that you have an obligation to work there...

.. and it's not "me", it's my Ltd

[To BI or not to BI?]

It's an interesting debate - if you haven't got the right to give notice, it could be argued that you have an obligation to work there...

It's the usual old story. If you hire an electrician to sort out your home, he's not going to give you a notice period and freck off half way through the job, is he?

[TheFaQQer]

Surely having equal termination notice periods (or even a termination notice period on the part of your Ltd.) implies MOO hence could raise a IR35 flag????

It's an interesting debate - if you haven't got the right to give notice, it could be argued that you have an obligation to work there...

[To BI or not to BI?]

Surely having equal termination notice periods (or even a termination notice period on the part of your Ltd.) implies MOO hence could raise a IR35 flag????

[SueEllen]

Browne - thats what I feel. So is this common for you or any other contractor here? If the decision of being inside or outside IR35, a Contractor's responsibility, then are agencies held to pay any expenses, tax, etc.by HMRC? And if yes, in the experience of group here, do most agencies have this clause ?

I don't have this clause in my contract as it is very clear the contract is with my ltd who provide personnel, namely me or an approved subsitute, to do the work.

Regarding termination, yes I dont mind anything. The only thing is I should have the same right.

This is up to you to negiogiate.

[peace]

Yes, thats what I have said them - 1st is not required and alter 2nd or give the same right to me also.

Browne - thats what I feel. So is this common for you or any other contractor here? If the decision of being inside or outside IR35, a Contractor's responsibility, then are agencies held to pay any expenses, tax, etc.by HMRC? And if yes, in the experience of group here, do most agencies have this clause ?

Regarding termination, yes I dont mind anything. The only thing is I should have the same right.

[BrowneIssue]

Alternative response

I'll have a go at a less negative response now.

It reads as though the first part is saying "and if you do fall under IR35, YOU pay the tax, not US". So if they get an employer's NI bill, they'll push it your way.

The second part about termination seems to depend upon individual's views. Many say you don't give the milkman any notice before cancelling the order, so to be outside IR35 you shouldn't get any notice either. Some say it is only fair that you should get the same notice period as you have to give.

The reality is, a contractor can be sacked on the spot for anything and you're not really likely to sue them for a week's notice pay - so what difference does it make?

Then again, if they want to lay contractors off to save money, it would be nice to get 4 weeks dosh while looking for the next gig.

"Don't ask, don't get". Ask them to change the notice period to match what you have to give - see if they say yes or no.

Oh, and ignore my previous response - it was a bit too heavy-handed with hindsight.

[SueEllen]

1. The agency is trying to ensure that you are not a employee but if you operate under a limited company/umbrella company then you can't be an employee as the contract is with your limited company/umbrella company not you as an individual so the clause is not needed. So get it removed.

2. Allowing them to terminate the contract for no good reason is unfair on your business. Get it altered.

If they refuse to then you are going to have to walk.