Reply to: Asking about agencies margins in interviews?

[bunman]

but back to the point of the thread however, I think that everyone is in agreement that trying to weasel rates, pay and charges at interview stage is suicide, possibly more helpful at extension time, but to be honest the pimp is always going to protect his margin and ask the client for the increase.

True finding out the margin is more useful for extensions. I don’t do it all the time (in fact most I do not) I only ask in an interview is when the feeling is right. Clients asking about the agency if what they are like - not used them before, or smaller clients that want to save money, or if they think I am too expensive, or the agency has previously lied (like I know this contractor he is a good friend of mine when I don’t know them at all), etc. Often it will follow on from interview banter really. I don't ask all the time true some clients will not like it others will think it is cool. When I hire I wouldn’t mind someone asking and I would get to know what sort of agency they were.

I want 300 a day the pimp asks for 450 - you can save the client money say 90 a day as the rate should be a more realistic 360 a day. Or if they are willing to pay 450 a day I would like 380 or whatever.

Worded in the correct way I don't see too much of a problem. I think the several times I have asked I have got the position so I don't see any form of suicide there.

I have no problem at all with reasonable rates from the agency say up to 20%. Anymore and I think they are being greedy tbh or than 30% I would take a stand. I know they do a useful job for contractors and don't begrudge them taking reasonable money at all.

To be honest I have had a few shockers many from years ago and I have known in my time a fair few pimps and know some of the tactics. Sure there are "nice" ones but not all are in fact some of the best horror stories come from them. Benn a bit jaded from past experiences….

*Off Topic'ish* During your duration on a contract, does your pimp ever show his appreciation with taking you out for a beer, meal, event, etc? I know I do and even though it is not much compared to what my company has earnt over the duration it is a little something to say thanks.

Not seen much recently ( However I have been doing lots of private/direct work for clients in recent years) But talking to others I am sure it is not as common as 10 or even 5 years ago.

[dutchrecruiter]

Thats just stupid from the pimps side.

Dont get me worng there are still some complete as*holes of agents and agencies out there, which unfortunatley give the reasonable and good pimps a bad name.

You will always find though that the blaggers, cheats and theives never stay around for very long.

[sli_gryn]

had a situation where the end client showed me the rate being charged the pimp by accident (it was on his screen behind him as he was talking to me). it was about 30% or so, a bit big, but i wasn't too fussed as the pimp and i had already verbally agreed to a rate.

so, the pimp calls and says "they want you, but cant do x rate, only lower at ..." which worked out to be a 40% margin for them. i said no, stuck by the original rate. the back and forth went for about 6 calls, each time with the agent saying that it was 'hurting' them to stick with the agreed rate. (to which i responded, "well, if it's going to hurt you, you obviously can't afford me, so i'll go looking for something else..." didn't that get there attention!) in the end, i got a better offer. that kind of work by the pimp though turned me well off using them again

[dutchrecruiter]

I haven't had this. They do call me very 2-3 months to see how things are going (and to fish for other openings that the client might have).

how do i get them to take me out for lunch (they office is walking distance to mine). Bit of inside info would be useful, i think i deserve a lunch at least.

Come and work through me

Depends on how long you've been there and how benificial you are to your pimp in most cases, but I try and take all of my peeps out at least once a year.

The best way is to ask for it, most of the time you get the yeah yeah I'll look at my agenda and sort that out, which never happens.

I dont work for huge pimp outfits, as it is just a numbers game with no personal service, so I can suggest to the MD that I wanna take someone out, use to get the "What do you hope to achieve from the meeting?" answer, but now it just gets agreed because sometimes it pay itself back with inside info but most of the time it just shows you guys/gals that not all pimps are vampires.

[Muttley08]

Always found it depends on the chances of getting more work with most of em.

Current pimp is a right tight git - but he's crap with payments so he aint getting any tip offs

[richard-af]

Badenoch & Clark are winers & diners. Lovely.

[chicane]

how do i get them to take me out for lunch (they office is walking distance to mine).

Tell them you'd like to drop your day rate by £10.

But seriously, I think it depends on the pimp. I've been taken for lunch by the current one, and for beers by the one prior to that, but I didn't do anything to instigate it.

A pimp looking to get on your side and develop a good long-term relationship will take you out for lunch. A short-term minded pimp will balk at the thought of spending £40 and will not take you for lunch.

[buffdaddy]

how to score a "free" lunch??

*Off Topic'ish* During your duration on a contract, does your pimp ever show his appreciation with taking you out for a beer, meal, event, etc? I know I do and even though it is not much compared to what my company has earnt over the duration it is a little something to say thanks.

I haven't had this. They do call me very 2-3 months to see how things are going (and to fish for other openings that the client might have).

how do i get them to take me out for lunch (they office is walking distance to mine). Bit of inside info would be useful, i think i deserve a lunch at least.

[dutchrecruiter]

The agent will not pick the best candidate for the role, they will pick the one that gets them the most money in the short term.

The best solution is to go direct!

That’s nonsense.

Very rarely does a pimp get to decide out of the people that have interviewed via them, which one they pick.

In today’s market, with the amount of credible and rogue competition around, pimps put forward people whop can do the job. The contractor may well be over the clients budget (or does not fall inline with the pimps margin they want) but we still see them through the process.

I look at it that if my client is happy with the contractor and the rate, and I don’t make the money I want, I take it on the chin because next time the client will come to me first.

I run my business with longevity and not one hit wonders.

In relation to pimps getting paid if you are there for a day or 10 years, our role changes slightly, but it is still our client, we still have to pay you up front and still have to take on the liabilities involved. The only cost we save is an advert and several phone calls.

*Off Topic'ish* During your duration on a contract, does your pimp ever show his appreciation with taking you out for a beer, meal, event, etc? I know I do and even though it is not much compared to what my company has earnt over the duration it is a little something to say thanks.

but back to the point of the thread however, I think that everyone is in agreement that trying to weasel rates, pay and charges at interview stage is suicide, possibly more helpful at extension time, but to be honest the pimp is always going to protect his margin and ask the client for the increase.

[Ardesco]

Because the agent inadvertently left this detail in a cut and paste snippet to me from their accounts dept.

But you're correct, I don't know what the margin refers to. I am suspicious because this kind of role should be a high payer, but I am getting what I consider to be an average day rate.

Ask the agent to explain it then. Should be interesting listening to him squirm if nothing else

[Peter Loew]

How do you know what the agency's margin is? this could be what they make in a day/week/month/duration of whole contract. Without any more detail it is impossible to tell.

Because the agent inadvertently left this detail in a cut and paste snippet to me from their accounts dept.

But you're correct, I don't know what the margin refers to. I am suspicious because this kind of role should be a high payer, but I am getting what I consider to be an average day rate.

[Ardesco]

This is exactly what I intend to do. I have seen the agency's margin for me on this contract, it is £210 more than my day rate.

What I don't understand is that, is this what the client is paying to the agent on a daily basis?

How do you know what the agency's margin is? this could be what they make in a day/week/month/duration of whole contract. Without any more detail it is impossible to tell.

[Peter Loew]

I wouldn't try and pick apart the margin at such an early stage: it's likely to turn the client away. Better to go in at a rate you're happy with: then later on, if you're up for renewal and you find out the agent's getting far more than he deserves, by all means try and grab yourself a slice of it.

This is exactly what I intend to do. I have seen the agency's margin for me on this contract, it is £210 more than my day rate.

What I don't understand is that, is this what the client is paying to the agent on a daily basis?

[shoes]

It all depends on the client how much the agency cut is going to affect you. If they are a small cost conscious firm and the agency is charging you out at too high a rate your contract will not last as long and the client will expect more from you. This situation is actually detrimental to yourself AND the agency because the contract is less likely to be renewed and you are less likely to want to be renewed at a client that is on your back all the time. This thinking is unlikely to occur to the agent however and they will think they have done their job well.

Meanwhile you and the agent will make less out of the client than you would have done if you were charged out at a more reasonable rate.

If the client is a typical large firm then I would argue the agents cut makes less of a difference. I think the main thing to remember in these negotiations is that although you might know the kind of money a client is prepared to pay for someone with your skillset the other guy you might be up against might not. The agent will not pick the best candidate for the role, they will pick the one that gets them the most money in the short term.

The best solution is to go direct!

[thunderlizard]

I wouldn't try and pick apart the margin at such an early stage: it's likely to turn the client away. Better to go in at a rate you're happy with: then later on, if you're up for renewal and you find out the agent's getting far more than he deserves, by all means try and grab yourself a slice of it.