Reply to: rate negotation

[Ardesco]

22% cut is not unheard of so they really aren't being any more dodgy than anybody else in the market.

[LadyChatterley]

Thanks for your reply Ardesco.

The end client is definately paying the agent £450pr dy, they told me so and showed me the sheet from the agent. Its about 25mins drive from home so thats why I was considering the role and the rate. I just don't like the fact that the Agent has been a shady git with me and stands to earn £100 a day off my back when I will be the sole test analyst there doing end to end testing of 8 interfaces from old to new systems and training their own employess to boot because they have never done any testing before. There is no release management in place, no config management, no test tools (all scripts to be written in word or excel) and hardly any documentation. I'd have to manage/set all these processes up which I think is quite a demanding role, for the rate offered. Ive just turned down one in Norway for £520 a day after much debate and this one is the first I've looked at since.

[Ardesco]

On average agents will take 12-20% commision (Unless they are really dodgy)

If you are offered the role tell him you love the role but have been offered something at £380/day which is hard to turn down, however if he matched it you would be there right away. That gets him 15% commision which is about average and he shouldn't really worry about it too much.

Bear in mind that the end client may not be paying £450/day really, that may be the budget they have and they will prolly try and squeeze margins as well. At the end of the day if you are happy to work for £350/day and you like the sound of the role go for it. Don't worry about what the agents cut is.

[LadyChatterley]

Hi Guys

I've a decision to make on a new gig by today close of business. Firstly the pimp offered to match my current rate (which I didnt renew btw) but he knew the rates cos he has some of his own contractors in there at the moment. This gig again was close to home, 15mins down the road but the PM was an absolute arse so I told them to shove it when it came to renewal.

Know heres the good bit, rival end client wants me but agent first said 320 per day and theres no margin which in itself was a load of twaddle. I told him at the time well its not worth me moving at all cos Im on more than that in my current gig. I said I'd consider it for 350... so he sends me an email with the details interviewer etc, time and rate of 350 pr dy. Fair enough. BUT when I get there I get on really well with the interviewer and he shows me and tells me they are paying them 450 a day for this contractor. Agent rings up after being off for 3 days asks me to go back for a second interview, sends me the confirmation email of date and time etc and has put on this email 340pr dy (and "I'll try and get you a little bit more") cheeky git. So I thought 'right I'll go along for the interview justs so's 'll be in a better negotiating position'. So now Im in a quandry, the agent is expecting a yes or no from me today as to wether im going to take this gig and start on monday.

I want to talk money (but am rather crap at this bit to be honest) how much would be a realistic figure to go for if the agent is getting 450 a day and has told me 340/350pr dy (he doesnt know I know) would 400 be unreasonable and what would you say/how would you put it across to the pimp?

Any advice would be welcome, thanks.

[Orbit]

[QUOTE=tay]I did this at renewal time and droppepd the margin from 30% to 8%.QUOTE]

Good on you - all too often do we put margin out of our minds and try to convince ourselves that the rate is what matters. Anything under 12% I would say is acceptable - 50% you're having a laugh!!

[tay]

Information is the enemy of the agent in these cases. If you know the margin, and then discuss the situation with your line manager and get him on board... you are quids in and the agent is screwed. Last contract I did this at renewal time and droppepd the margin from 30% to 8%.

The agent was spewing that I knew the margin, and also that the client would be septic if they lost me because they werent cutting the margin.

[Orbit]

If i'm expected to negotiate with the client directly i don't really see the point of the agency I might as well just say I'll work directly for the client when my contract with the agency runs out and cut out the middle man.

Ideal if you can find a gig that way - I've had a few leads from from the likes of LinkedIN, Cynanto, Zubka etc. I try to avoid agencies at all costs...

[thunderlizard]

assclown, you need to take control of your situation. You've got a mighty strong hand, so stop waiting for somebody else to make the rules up for you.

[assclown]

well i found the most recent purchase order on the company intranet. The agency are getting paid 20k for a 20 week extension on my contract.

Basically they are taking %50 margin. The nerve. You better believe im asking for a rate rise!

[TheFaQQer]

Is that enforceable - I would be unable to take that seriously. Not discussing with the client, ok. But not discussing with other contractors on site ??

In my previous contract, my line manager decided I would do a little admin. Went along with it - turned out the admin meant I had a clear view of all contractors rates. I'm pretty sure it was deliberate - but couldn't swear to it

Helped a lot at renegotiation time - squeezed the agent quite hard.

No idea if it is enforceable or not - can't see them enforcing it. Given that the contract also had (until I removed it!) a clause that prohibited me from slagging the agency off, and if I did and they lost business I was liable for their loss, I severely doubt that this is enforceable.

Probably not best to discuss rates with other contractors though.

[ilgitano]

My current contract prohibits my discussion of rates with the client or other contractors here - it's not uncommon.

Discussions should be with the agent - but knowing what the customer is paying may help you out!

Is that enforceable - I would be unable to take that seriously. Not discussing with the client, ok. But not discussing with other contractors on site ??

In my previous contract, my line manager decided I would do a little admin. Went along with it - turned out the admin meant I had a clear view of all contractors rates. I'm pretty sure it was deliberate - but couldn't swear to it

Helped a lot at renegotiation time - squeezed the agent quite hard.

[assclown]

here is the email response to a query of the changed date on the electronic copy of my contract.

_________________________
Hi Assclown

Yes you did start in March but the date on the contract is from when the

new purchase order number starts from, am I also right in thinking that

your contract has now been extended to January?

Agent
________________


Eh im just getting more confused. Why would the start date on a contract be from when the purchase order starts? Shouldnt it be from when employment commenced? She mentions the "extension" which I have yet to put pen to paper on as well. I'm getting a bit fed up with the evasiveness & the contract ain't anything special so I think i'll go with your advice luke and get awkward. Thanks for following my sagal..

[lukemg]

You are being messed around by the agency - your company works on a contract for them NOT the end client.
Since they are d1cking you around, have no qualms in doing the same. Send the AGENT a note telling them you want £22/hour for any further contract. Don't ask, say can we discuss etc etc just tell them.
Start looking for another contract NOW and if they phone or write, state that is your position.
If you don't feel able to do this/too worried/no idea where next job might come from - suck it up and keep the lower rate

[thunderlizard]

It's always best to negotiate with the end client direct if that's an option. You are in luck. You're better able to explain the benefits you can bring, and you get to influence people who are closer to the source of the cash.

[Epiphone]

well the plot thickens, I've spoken to my umbrella company and they agreed that it was unethical and unprofessional of the agent to suggest I approach the client directly to negotiate rates.

Why are the unbrella involved? They just procecss your pay, not have anything to do with contracts.

On top of that I asked the agent for an electronic copy of my current 6 month contract and she has sent me the new contract that has a start date of 1 week ago! Strange. I've queried her on it and am awaiting a response.

You have a contract with the brolly, they have a contract with the agency. The brolly might let you have a copy of that though.