Going from permie to contract at the same company?

[XLMonkey]

...and obviously the most important contract is the first one.

nope, the most important contract is the second one - that's when you stop being an opportunist and start thinking of yourself as a contractor first and foremost, rather than just someone who spotted an opportunity for a fast buck.

but seriously... I have left an employer and then been contracted back to them, but it has to be very sensitively handled and is risky. The key for me was
- to make clear (and mean it) that I was leaving anyway. Regardless of whether they offered me a contract I wasn't going to stay as an employee.
- make clear that it wasn't about me not liking them, it was about me wanting to work for myself (sounds wa*ky, but you know what I mean)
- having options: good idea to have found other contract work to go for.

[ContractIn]

What you've got to do is leave with a good relationship still intact between you and the company. Give them contact details and let it be known that you'll be more than happy to help them out if they get in a fix, for discount rates, and leave it at that.

And yes, you will be resented by the permanent staff, but then you have to be super-professional and (a) never ever reveal your rate or talk about how great being a contractor is (b) act like an external consultant (c) never let them give you staff benefits like canteen lunches etc.

Excellent advice...

I am in a very similar situation. I was in fact made redundant over two years ago, and went straight into contracting, I am now back at employer who made me redundent (in a different department) on a 12 month contract which is due to be renewed for a further 6 months.

You must be better than before, treat it as a professional services engagement, maintain the up most professionalism, get in that litlle bit eailier and leave that little bit later; and never comment on your rates

[oraclesmith]

What you've got to do is leave with a good relationship still intact between you and the company. Give them contact details and let it be known that you'll be more than happy to help them out if they get in a fix, for discount rates, and leave it at that.

And yes, you will be resented by the permanent staff, but then you have to be super-professional and (a) never ever reveal your rate or talk about how great being a contractor is (b) act like an external consultant (c) never let them give you staff benefits like canteen lunches etc.

[pfeds]

Prior to leaving my old permie job I was the key designer/developer of their flagship software (90% of the companies revenue). I warned my manager that I was thinking of leaving unless he eased my workload onto some of the other developers who were faffing around all day every day. Nothing had happened a month later when I resigned and it really screwed the company - nobody knew what to do. I worked four weeks notice watching them all running around like headless chickens, and even now they're not doing so well. I offered to come back on a short-term contract but they refused and are suffering because of it. The problem a company has is that if they take one permie on as a contractor then they can't prevent the other staff thinking they should do it too.

[tim123]

Never over estimate your own importance when negotiating, you are replaceable and usually a lot more easily than you think.

Gerry Weinberg said in (IIRC) 1978 "If an engineer gets himself into a position where he is indispensible, you should sack him". The theory is you should take the pain whilst you are in control, it will only get worse if you don't.

Having all your system knowledge in one person's head is a stupid position for a company to get itself into, it should rectify it ASAP.

tim

[lukemg]

I know lots of places who will show you the door or placate you initially and get you out when things are more stable.
I know of none that will say 'yes please, can you roger me again'
Wait for review and ask for big pay rise, they say no - you leave. OR hand in notice, when asked why, say you are looking for more reward and leave it at that (don't say place is sh1t, people clueless etc). You are making it clear it is the reward that is the problem which gives them an easy option to resolve it by bunging you more.

[twigmeister]

Never over estimate your own importance when negotiating, you are replaceable and usually a lot more easily than you think.

Yeah it sounded abit bigheaded after I wrote up, but it is fairly accurate in this instance. I am replaceable, but their timescales are so tight I think it would hurt them abit.

That's what my last permie job offered me. Didn't take it though - my leaving wasn't about the money (believe it or not), it was about getting to work for someone I like, trust and respect...

I'm similar, its not so much about the money, I'm just ... frustrated about a few things.

[rootsnall]

I suspected as much for the IR35 and you're also right about them still needing me to do my current role.

They're right at the start for a fairly big IT job and I'm the only one who in the company who knows the ins an outs of the IT aspect. They would be inbetween a rock and a hard place when I leave.

Also, if I did go and come back then it might encourage some of their scarce and more talented developers to try something similar.

The more I think about this in the light of day the more it's got improbable written all over it.

Thanks

Never over estimate your own importance when negotiating, you are replaceable and usually a lot more easily than you think.

[TheFaQQer]

If they need you that much, you could always stay permie and take the pay rise...

That's what my last permie job offered me. Didn't take it though - my leaving wasn't about the money (believe it or not), it was about getting to work for someone I like, trust and respect...

[twigmeister]

I suspected as much for the IR35 and you're also right about them still needing me to do my current role.

They're right at the start for a fairly big IT job and I'm the only one who in the company who knows the ins an outs of the IT aspect. They would be inbetween a rock and a hard place when I leave.

Also, if I did go and come back then it might encourage some of their scarce and more talented developers to try something similar.

The more I think about this in the light of day the more it's got improbable written all over it.

Thanks

[tim123]

If your employer still has a need for you then yes, he will see you as TTP.

In 99% of cases he can't afford not to call your bluff, as if he lets you switch "everyone will want to".

The chances of your current employer letting you do this is only slightly better than you winning the lottery. I even know of some companies who will never re-employ any ex-staff as contractors, lest it should encourage the perms who stayed to 'contract'.

tim

[Cowboy Bob]

You will fall foul of the IR35 legislation by doing this and will have to pay more tax.

[twigmeister]

Hi,

I'm investigating my options in entering the contract market and obviously the most important contract is the first one. My current employee is a fairly small business and I was wondering if anyone had ever switched from permanent to contract work and approached their initial employer for that first contract?

This has various benefits as I see it:

• Already have a good idea about what to expect, people, job
  Provides the first contract
  Allows for an income while you get used to contracting

It also has some drawbacks:

• The employee might think you are taking liberties
  Might call your bluff (but if you're doing it anyway )
  People might resent you

So, has anyone done something similar? Did it work or was it a nightmare from start to finish?