What's my price?

[DodgyAgent]

Thanks for all your advice folks, most appreciated.


Now onto mind games.... I'm guessing an agent will look at my CV and realise I'm new to the market and eye him a nice fat wedge of a margin. So, say for example I want to target £350 gigs, if I get asked my rate do I quote £400 knowing that they'll work(grind) me down to my target rate?

Not at all. An agent will look at your CV and realising that you are first timer will want to impress you that the Industry is very professional and honest. He will give you a special "first time" deal with a low margin and a lunch early in the contract.

trust me.

[Diestl]

I was in a similar position to you (mortgage, family etc), so I was not crazy about just handing in my notice without a contract. I had some holidays and said to Agents I would be avaliabel in 2 weeks, then once I got the gig I let my bosses know and although they were a bit pissed off they let me go without problem. In fact they even said they would like me to contract for them in the future.

I would think 2 weeks is the max notice period unless you are willing to wait months.

[spudgun]

IMO this is bad advice (the rest was fairly good though spud) - giving a range like this is effectively stating your bottom rate anyway. Just quote one rate and negotiate from there.

fair point - though the bottom of my range was never my rack bottom

I found it helped when there was no rate specified to give a range.

I will know for future

P

[Ruprect]

Tailor the rate you state according to what you think the role would entail and ALWAYS give a range - 325-375 etc.... and NEVER state the bottom rate you will take - always add a little on for leway.

IMO this is bad advice (the rest was fairly good though spud) - giving a range like this is effectively stating your bottom rate anyway. Just quote one rate and negotiate from there.

[BobShawadiwadi]

Any other c#'ers with similar experience/quals care to share their rates/experiences.

We have plenty by standing Software Engineers who do c# and ers for you.

All days are for 10$

[LetsHaveAMeeting]

Hey Spudgun, thanks for your comments, glad to hear you got setup OK.

I'm only on 4 week notice period and have annual holidays owing which I'm hoping will reduce down to 3 weeks notice. I'm a little reluctant to hand in notice in advance as I do have a mortgage and mouths to feed etc etc. but I'm hoping 3 weeks notice won't be too much of a problem

I guess I'll have to wait and see how it goes... I'm deadly serious about my decision, have setup my Ltd company etc. and have been working upto this point for a while.

I just hope I have the same success as you have

Thanks again.

[spudgun]

having just done the "first timer" thing and secured my first contract (I start tomorrow ) I feel for the first time I can add a little to the conversation instead of leeching info from the boards.

I found agents were all very wary of the fact that I was a permie - I was on three months notice, and even when I said, I had handed in my notice, and was all set to start contracting any time in Feb, most were still a little standoffish.

What kind of notice can you work to? - if you are not handing your notice in before you get a contract how quickly can you leave. Most contracts I was going for were reluctant to work on a timescale of anything more than 2.5 weeks (even though for one role, I said I was available at 3 weeks notice - the agent said hmmmm, they were looking for someone on a little bit less, but we will put you forward and see what they say - 2 weeks pass and nothing, I get my gig and the day after she calls back asking if I can interview later in the week!)

I had a reasonable idea of my rate - and I am lucky that the skills I have aquired in permiedom are fairly valuable. I was assured here that I should have little problem getting a role. Even then there were several contracts I submitted my CV for where I was not even entertained for though I knew I could do the role. This was perhaps the hardest thing to deal with given that I am reasonably confident in my ability. It is important not to take this personally and just get over it. - It is relatively easy to take a look at a cross section of roles on jobserve and figure out a rate - Tailor the rate you state according to what you think the role would entail and ALWAYS give a range - 325-375 etc.... and NEVER state the bottom rate you will take - always add a little on for leway. These are two tips I picked up on this board and were valuable as in the end my agent went with the middle of my rate range and got it.

Do not get hung up on rates - if you are lucky enough to get a role with a rate which you are happy with, just accept that you may be giving the Agent a large wedge. At the end of the day, it is your first contract - it is important to get the experience, and if you are getting what you expected you can then figure out what you should be looking for on renewal or for your next one.


Do not get emotionally attached to any role - you may see roles which you think - YES! that is my dream role, I could do it, I want to do it, and I will do it. You may not even get your CV sent through. You may get the agent talking to you for hours, gleaming every detail from your experience - BEWARE - as sometimes they are just trying to build up their own Vocab.

Finally, beware agents ringing with phishing roles, never give out details on who you are working for at the moment, make up some nonsense about a privacy policy and not being able to divulge info. I never had the balls to give out an alternative number for myself and see if the agent called.

Finally good luck, it will be a tough time, you will find it very stressful. I spent every living moment over the last 2 months thinking, planning and trying to work out what the hell was going on. It did not help that I had handed in my notice, so the stress of not knowing whether i had food on the table in May was tough. At the end of the day though, I had no family to support, a small mortgage on half a flat and enough money to cover it for several months.

Like I said good luck - I have been assured this was the best decision I ever made, so I hope it will be the same for you.

P

[The Lone Gunman]

I didnt suggest taking a lower rate for any given job. If it is advertised at 400 then ask for 400, but there will be a few 300 jobs being advertised that the seasoned pro's won't touch so they will be having difficulty in getting anyone in.

A number of clients will not pay high rates to first timers. It is too much of a risk. They do not want to be investing time and effort in setting you up only to find you don't like contracting and have quit.
Unless you can demonstrate you are going to stick at it or you are the dogs at what you do then it will be hard.

As for ringing agents: I normaly answer ads with no rate with an email asking for a rate and more details with a two line precis of why I think the job is for me. You then either get a decent answer or we start playing "you first". If we start playing I am automatically wary of the agent.
I often quote a ridiculous rate and then negotiate down to what I wanted.

Only when I have accepted the details do I put forward a CV or allow them to put me forward.

I have a couple of agents who I trust. If they call I am in.

I am always willing to walk away.

[Cowboy Bob]

I'm not keen on the idea of taking a lower rate initially for obvious reasons although I've heard that before.

Yeah, that would be rather stupid for two reasons. 1) It makes you look crap - you should charge professional rates for professional work. 2) The agency will still be charging you out at the higher rate, just that they'll be taking a huge commission.

[LetsHaveAMeeting]

Thanks for all your advice folks, most appreciated.

I'm not keen on the idea of taking a lower rate initially for obvious reasons although I've heard that before. I'm not planning on handing in my notice till I have a contract so I'm hoping that I can be a little pickey rather than have to take the first/low rate that I may be offered.

Now onto mind games.... I'm guessing an agent will look at my CV and realise I'm new to the market and eye him a nice fat wedge of a margin. So, say for example I want to target £350 gigs, if I get asked my rate do I quote £400 knowing that they'll work(grind) me down to my target rate?

Also, The LG, you mention ringing agents before submitting an application with no advertised rates, is this the norm? I was planning on submitting to these and then asking the rate question if and when I get a call back or do follow up call. Any hints for said mind games too

Thanks again all.... roll on resignation time

[The Lone Gunman]

You need to decide what you will take. Look for positions on the usual job sites. You could start by using the search engine on this site. See what is being offered. Ring a few agents for the jobs with no advertised rate (you will have to play mind games to get a rate quote without giving them your rate first).

Not all ads are real, soem are high priced as phishing trips, agents gathering CVs. The average rate quotes on other sites are gathered by bots which take these high (but not real) rates into account.

As a first timer it may be in your interest to take a low rate (that nobody else will take) to get a track record started. You may struggle to get the top end if you hvae never worked contract before.

[HankWangford]

Contracting rates vary wildly, and the variation doesn't seem to be particularly regional or business sector based even. Some offered rates are pitiful considering the skills and experience they list as requirements, but presumably someone takes them.

If you've got good C# (presumably combined with ASP.NET if it's web development you do), and the usual associated stuff - DHTML, Javascript, Ajax, SQL etc - then you should be in demand and be able to ask a minimum £40 hr / £320 day, and pretty much anything upwards from there.

Hi lets, I am NW based (manchester). Good market at the moment, similar skillset - 10 yrs exp, asp.net 2.0, c#, xml, xslt, dhtml, ajax, sql 2005 etc etc lots of £350 gig's about but thats as far as it goes really. U need to move south to get the £400+

[dang65]

Contracting rates vary wildly, and the variation doesn't seem to be particularly regional or business sector based even. Some offered rates are pitiful considering the skills and experience they list as requirements, but presumably someone takes them.

If you've got good C# (presumably combined with ASP.NET if it's web development you do), and the usual associated stuff - DHTML, Javascript, Ajax, SQL etc - then you should be in demand and be able to ask a minimum £40 hr / £320 day, and pretty much anything upwards from there.

[MarillionFan]

www.jobstats.co.uk

hth

[LetsHaveAMeeting]

Hi All,

Just about to jump ship from being in permie corporate IT world of 8 years, 7 of which have been working in Web/Internet development & infrastructure. Been planning it for a while and studied for and achieved MCSD to compliment my experience and degree.

Targetting c# development in North West and trying to avoid getting screwed over by the first agent I talk to.

How can I best set my asking price. I'm confident in the skill set I have but looking at the likes of itjobswatch.co.uk, the average daily rate quoted doesn't match the average hourly rate. I realise these average are taken from averts that quote the rate and therefore differ but they seem widley different, e.g. Daily rate ~£450 whereas hourly rate ~£32.

Do I assume somewhere in between is good starting point (i was actually planning on using the average quoted daily rate as a start) or generally are rates lower than average when they are quoted in adverts?

Any other c#'ers with similar experience/quals care to share their rates/experiences.

Ta.