Reply to: Agency rates

[Taita]

Its a contractor's forum, I am sure on the agentuk forums we get called a lot worse, chill out a little!

I was chilling out with a little joke of my own!

P.S. I don't think agentUK exists in that dog eat dog community.

[The Agents View]

My original post was my aimed at the other contractors on this site, not at a pimp like yourself. I've no interest in wasting my time explaining what such a simple word means to the likes of you. It is obvious to everyone, apart from you.

I wonder why you get bent over in negotiations with an attitude like that?

Fair, in your case, means paying you as little as possible, and charging the client a ridiculous amount of money to maximise return - It's clear that any contract you're involved in, is only ever going to be short term with that kind of attitude towards people who are here to assist you in getting a new role - if the benefit is not going to be mutual, then expect to be ripped off in order to redress the balance.

[SimonMac]

If I am a pimp what does that make you?

Its a contractor's forum, I am sure on the agentuk forums we get called a lot worse, chill out a little!

[Taita]

Agency Rates

how will we stupid pathetic pimps ever learn how to serve you important people properly if you won't explain these things to us?

If I am a pimp what does that make you?

[abc]

I work as a locum in the field of adult mental health. The agencies that deal with us have exploited us for years. You IT guys and girls are way ahead of us in gaining some sort of respect from agencies.

If what some agents (note: not ALL agents) currently give us is respect then I'd hate to experience what disrespect feels like.

But being more serious about it, you used the important word "exploited".

That is exactly what it is and we should never forget it. If we do forget this, we will just end up as their low-wage slaves.

None of the bad agents/high margin agents would admit to this, no more than your average con artist would admit that what he was doing was wrong.

Instead they give us their condescending "don't worry, it's just business" BULLtulip argument, to try to pull the wool over our eyes.

[Pipe&Slippers]

I agree ThunderLizard. However, ignorance when it comes to business matters is also a major factor, and that applies to all sectors. I have been a MSC Ltd since 2003 and a full Ltd only recently. Many of my peers are still stuck as employees of the agencies or drifting in to brollies post April 5th and they haven't a clue.

[thunderlizard]

That's probably because your field assumes some degree of good will towards your fellow man, and that's just asking to be exploited. Not a problem with IT folk.

[Pipe&Slippers]

I work as a locum in the field of adult mental health. The agencies that deal with us have exploited us for years. You IT guys and girls are way ahead of us in gaining some sort of respect from agencies.

[TheFaQQer]

I have just started out and have set my own day rate (well below market rate) with agencies which is a figure I believe to be fair (fair for someone of my experience in my sector). I purposely set it that bit lower for 2 reasons:-

-Its a figure I believe I am worth
-I want to get started in contracting and therefore wanted to 'undercut' more expensive contractors.

By the sounds of it, it is quite possible that agents are licking their lips as they have a massive markup on me, and clients are scratching their heads wondering why someone with less than average experience is charging average market rates.

Both of these do me no good at all!

My question is, apart from asking the agent, how can one find out the rate and how do you negotiate that rate down?

I fell for the same thing when I started - I cut my rate from what I ideally wanted, to try and get work. Made no difference at all really - just that someone else got a bigger commission and I made less money.

Ask the agent, and see what they say. If they're not willing to share the information then this sets alarm bells ringing with me.

[DodgyAgent]

My original post was my aimed at the other contractors on this site, not at a pimp like yourself. I've no interest in wasting my time explaining what such a simple word means to the likes of you. It is obvious to everyone, apart from you.

how will we stupid pathetic pimps ever learn how to serve you important people properly if you won't explain these things to us?

[abc]

then explain what you mean by "fair"

Is it:

Fair to you?
Fair to everyone? (and how would you know?)

Or is arguing the point beyond your intellectual capabilities?

My original post was my aimed at the other contractors on this site, not at a pimp like yourself. I've no interest in wasting my time explaining what such a simple word means to the likes of you. It is obvious to everyone, apart from you.

[DodgyAgent]

Don't go trying to tell me what words to use, you arrogant pimp.

I'll use what ever words I want to, thanks.

then explain what you mean by "fair"

Is it:

Fair to you?
Fair to everyone? (and how would you know?)

Or is arguing the point beyond your intellectual capabilities?

[abc]

It is a good point that you make but please do not use that word "fair" . It is a dreadful word that is used to gloss over quite complex arguments.

The reason why contractors should make it their business to know what their agency is taking is because the contractor should know how competitive his/her overall rate is. Also if the client is paying £1000 a day for a £500 a day contractor his expectations may be higher than the performance that the contractor is able to give. This is not a morality issue, however if agencies are that opportunistic in how they charge contractors then they should not be surprised if they are not trusted in future business dealings. It is interesting just how many ruthless opportunists there are in this world who are not succesfull.

Don't go trying to tell me what words to use, you arrogant pimp.

I'll use what ever words I want to, thanks.

[tim123]

It is a good point that you make but please do not use that word "fair" . It is a dreadful word that is used to gloss over quite complex arguments.

The reason why contractors should make it their business to know what their agency is taking is because the contractor should know how competitive his/her overall rate is. Also if the client is paying £1000 a day for a £500 a day contractor his expectations may be higher than the performance that the contractor is able to give. This is not a morality issue, however if agencies are that opportunistic in how they charge contractors then they should not be surprised if they are not trusted in future business dealings. It is interesting just how many ruthless opportunists there are in this world who are not succesfull.

Dodgy, can I use you to find me a new job please.

tim

[DodgyAgent]

All contractors would benefit by having the agency margin known, because it would give contractors a sensible way of choosing between the agencies that try to be fair, and the cowboy agencies, that frankly have contempt for contractors. We all want the fair agencies to succeed don't we?

The rate that contractors get is subject to market forces - the ups and downs in demand from clients and what they will pay in TOTAL to take on a contractor. Market forces apply to contractors, so why not to agencies? Why should agencies get to hide what they charge?

If agencies want to hide what they charge, does anyone think this due to shyness or some other harmless factor? NO, it is a good bet that it's because they are ripping you off with a high margin.

Would you write a blank cheque at the supermarket, trusting that they will not overcharge you? So why would you trust some ex used car salesman, that you have never even met, working as an agent?

It is a good point that you make but please do not use that word "fair" . It is a dreadful word that is used to gloss over quite complex arguments.

The reason why contractors should make it their business to know what their agency is taking is because the contractor should know how competitive his/her overall rate is. Also if the client is paying £1000 a day for a £500 a day contractor his expectations may be higher than the performance that the contractor is able to give. This is not a morality issue, however if agencies are that opportunistic in how they charge contractors then they should not be surprised if they are not trusted in future business dealings. It is interesting just how many ruthless opportunists there are in this world who are not succesfull.