Reply to: GIANT and a Change of Expense Procedures

[rawly]

At £28 a pop too its no wonder people are pissed off. There are many service providers out there that charge less than half that for the same level of service if not better "even after tax relief"

Indeed. They just updated me this morning on my 3 options. Which I already knew anyway. Their next communication will advise me what to do next. Well at £130 a month for their Ltd company offering plus 3 months advanced payment then let me think - shall I do this or use an accountancy firm varying from £60 to £90 with hardly any setup costs. Hmmmm. Let me think.

[bangface]

This was covered in a thread from early December when Giant first announced this. Most of your points are correct except for TWO very important one's:

1) Giant did not do this due to anything HMRC said to them. Giant introduced this on advise from an independent group of consultants who advised it was best practice. I know this because I verified it from my Giant CSM.

2) Even though I accept most of the things being said about Expenses, there is one area that is not the case to have reciepts. This is Business Mileage. The official IR web site states you only need to have kept a log book. Receipts are not required. Giant asked for £10 of receipts per 100 miles. They imposed this on themselves - as on this one point I would happily exit Giant and go elsewhere anyway - which I was planning on doing before April anyhow.

In some ways Giant have shot themselves in the foot and seem happy to lose income from us when they piss us off unncecessarily.

1. I think it had something to do with some advice they received from Groupama???

2. The only reason they would ask for receipts to support mileage is for their own benefit so they can offset the VAT element of the fuel receipts provided as to my knowledge there is no requirement in law that stipulates that fuel receipts must support mileage claims (as yet anyway)

At £28 a pop too its no wonder people are pissed off. There are many service providers out there that charge less than half that for the same level of service if not better "even after tax relief"

[Cowboy Bob]

[QUOTE=Mickmanus]

You have ALWAYS needed receipts for expences just that GIANT didn't used to need to see them due to their dispensation. If the taxman investigates you and asks for the receipts and you don't have them, then expect to spend some time at Her Majesty's pleasure for fraud.

I find it ludicrous that people think that her majesty is going to want to fill her overcrowded jails with those who have not kept receipts; it is only fuelling this government’s scaremongering further and is simply a ridiculous notion considering Piggott only spent 12months inside for over 3million pounds of evasion.

Indeed this is the maximum penalty, though depending on how much you've been fraudlently claiming and for how long will depend on the sentence. Chances are you're looking at quite a hefty fine at the minimum.

Remember also that Piggott was a celebrity, and we all know from cases involving celebrities that they only ever go to prison the the most serious things, and get away with things that the average person would be locked up for.

It's your choice at the end of the day, but to reiterate, fraudulantly claiming expenses is a criminal offence and will be treated as such. It is not the same as not paying enough tax or falling foul of S660a/IR35 or anything like that.

[Maxamus]

I find it ludicrous that people think that her majesty is going to want to fill her overcrowded jails with those who have not kept receipts; it is only fuelling this government’s scaremongering further and is simply a ridiculous notion considering Piggott only spent 12months inside for over 3million pounds of evasion.

They are not bothered about those that day in day out scrooge on benefits and laze around on their @rses yet when people put the hours in they tax the hell out of them and put obstacles at every turninga nd corner!

Just cant win

(sticks his middle finger up to the goverment)

[mictech]

Its cost over £5000 a week to keep one prisoner, for them to send us away for a couple grand, which giant encouraged us to claim.

I am waiting to say what giant have to say when I put my milage claim in next, as I only use my car for buiness use and get more than 100 miles on a tenna.

There will be so many be contractors leaving the likes of giant, its as if they don't want to stay in business.

[Mickmanus]

[QUOTE=Cowboy Bob]You have ALWAYS needed receipts for expences just that GIANT didn't used to need to see them due to their dispensation. If the taxman investigates you and asks for the receipts and you don't have them, then expect to spend some time at Her Majesty's pleasure for fraud.

I find it ludicrous that people think that her majesty is going to want to fill her overcrowded jails with those who have not kept receipts; it is only fuelling this government’s scaremongering further and is simply a ridiculous notion considering Piggott only spent 12months inside for over 3million pounds of evasion.

[Maxamus]

2) Even though I accept most of the things being said about Expenses, there is one area that is not the case to have reciepts. This is Business Mileage. The official IR web site states you only need to have kept a log book. Receipts are not required.

This is true. You only need a LOG of business mileage and not reciepts. Thats what my accountant said anyway!

[rawly]

This was covered in a thread from early December when Giant first announced this. Most of your points are correct except for TWO very important one's:

1) Giant did not do this due to anything HMRC said to them. Giant introduced this on advise from an independent group of consultants who advised it was best practice. I know this because I verified it from my Giant CSM.

2) Even though I accept most of the things being said about Expenses, there is one area that is not the case to have reciepts. This is Business Mileage. The official IR web site states you only need to have kept a log book. Receipts are not required. Giant asked for £10 of receipts per 100 miles. They imposed this on themselves - as on this one point I would happily exit Giant and go elsewhere anyway - which I was planning on doing before April anyhow.

In some ways Giant have shot themselves in the foot and seem happy to lose income from us when they piss us off unncecessarily.

[Maxamus]

i keep the originals all in a folder in my office (home). I keep copies of all of them in my draw at work.

1. I keep an "expenses spreadsheet" to log all monthly expenses, when they were incurred, reason they were incurred, reference and cost. I update this every day if i need to. I normally reference expenses by giving them a number (0000x) and writing that number on the back of the reciept.

2. This then tallys up with the monthly expenses i withdraw from the business account. In the "Outgoings from Business Bank Account" spreadsheet i log the money taken out for expenses and reference that back to the expenses spreadsheet.

3. So the expenses spreadsheet, outgoing business bank account spreadsheet and business bank account bank statement all tally up as far as expenses are concerned.

Example:

Expenses Spreadsheet
£510 total expenses incurred between 01/01/2007 - 31/01/2007
(all individual items listed and referenced as follows: Date incurred / Type of expense / Reason incurred / Ref / Cost)

Outgoings From Business Account Spreadsheet
£510 taken out, Reason: Expenses paid for period 01/01/2007 - 31/01/2007
Date Taken out from account: 01/02/2007

Business Bank Account Statement:
On the statement it will show that £510 was taken out on the 01/02/2007 which tallys up with the above.

[Cowboy Bob]

At present I have them all attached to A4 bit of paper and in a file in my little office.

Exactly the same here. In a box file, stapled to A4 paper, with an explanation of the expense written out on the paper if it requires it (ie. I purchased a wireless bridge to connect a wired device to my wireless network and on the receipt it says "Game Adapter" - which probably wouldn't look too good without an explanation).

[Billy Pilgrim]

Just out of interest...where / how does everyone keep their expenses???

At present I have them all attached to A4 bit of paper and in a file in my little office.

I do not (as yet) have them all scanned in as electronic copies incase I manage to lose my A4 file..

Do people also keep electronic copies??

[Newby]

Sorry to disagree with some of you but it isn't anything to do with the new regulations, it will be HMRC who will have given them a damn good seeing too and taken away their dispensation.

Some companies have included a profit element in their dispensations which is why the revenue will have stopped the priviledge. You will have seen those companies who advertise "£24 a day for lunch" etc etc.
Hence if you continue to work with Giant you now have to send in petrol receipts and subsistence receipts. (its a shame that their portal doesnt look so handy now!!!)

My advice would be stop being lazy, go Limited, be in business on your own account and make more money!!

[Cowboy Bob]

Giant has encouraged there client to claim full expenses on there dispensation and never told me would have to have receipts to back them up. We have had it good for a long time and I suspect because of there size they consider themselves safe from investigation.

Are you safe from investigation though? They are after all YOUR expenses and you need to back them up with receipts if you ever have your personal tax invetigated. It has happened. There are a few people on here who have been investigated and are VERY glad they had receipts to back up their claims.

Claiming expenses that you haven't incurred is fraud - a criminal offence - which depending on how much you have claimed and for how long could end up with you in prison.

[pickle]

[QUOTE=mictech]The holidays over it look like back to Ltd with the 2 hours a week doing book and invoices etc. QUOTE]

Feck me, a whole working day per month to run a one man limited!?

Do you have learning difficulties?

[Ardesco]

In regard to expenses the new rules are no different to the old rules. The only difference is that the umbrellla companies are being forced to follow the old rules in a stricter way.

If you have ever been claiming expenses that you did not incur you have been commiting fraud and if IR do an investigation on you, you are liable for a spell inside.