Reply to: Agent requesting "references"

[Lucy]

This may be a dumb question, but exactly how do you source new contracts from our previous references?
Do you ring them up, ask "Would you like a contractor" and the client says "Do you know what, we do need a contractor and it had completely slipped my mind!"

Surely if a contract is there then it's there, presumably with an agency already. The only reason you use our references is to get your foot in the door of a client and the all-important contact name that otherwise you wouldn't have a pig's ear of a chance in getting if you actually got off your ar$e and worked for it.

Rant over!

Well, I am not a salesperson, however, what I do know of sales is everyone / thing is a lead. So, they call your references, previous companies, mother, someone you sat next to on the tube - and ask for you - knowing you aren't there, hoping they will be put through to someone they can add to their list for the future. Salespeople don't (usually) think about the now, they are thinking? about next week, month, year etc

HTH

[meridian]

Genuine question....

How would you guys suggest that agents source new contracts for you which is ethical and not annoying to anyone concerned?

This may be a dumb question, but exactly how do you source new contracts from our previous references?
Do you ring them up, ask "Would you like a contractor" and the client says "Do you know what, we do need a contractor and it had completely slipped my mind!"

Surely if a contract is there then it's there, presumably with an agency already. The only reason you use our references is to get your foot in the door of a client and the all-important contact name that otherwise you wouldn't have a pig's ear of a chance in getting if you actually got off your ar$e and worked for it.

Rant over!

[BillHicksRIP]

I'm shortly about to be at the mercy of agents again, and I'm not looking forward to fending off the crap from the good. I've decided to refuse to give references until interview as I don't want to annoy my current boss with enquiries from the gel brigade, but will point them at a tech forum I contribute to and tell them, and the client, to search for my name.

[Lucy]

With respect, it's naive people like you who cause this sort of thing to perpetuate. If everyone just told agents (politely) that we were not going to supply references just to give them a bunch of free sales leads, they wouldn't waste their time trying it on.

I agree, Mordy, but, don't we give them 'free sales leads' everytime we give them a cv. (I saw an ex-colleague's cv the other day, and she had listed all the projects by name she had ever worked on. A pimp's dream!)

[Zippy]

Genuine question....

How would you guys suggest that agents source new contracts for you which is ethical and not annoying to anyone concerned?

Your profession needs to establish a better reputation so some serious work is required. This means :

1) being upfront about what is on offer without playing the fishing game(what's your min rate etc.etc.)
2) DON'T ask for references up front, or proof of id, or the name of my grandmothers canary. There's plenty of time for that if I get offered the job.

3) educate your clients and tell them that it is unreasonable of them to expect deeply personal information without a full job spec --> interview --> job offer.

4) educate yourself so you can weed out the bullsh!tters(minority) from the good guys(majority) and therefore protect your client.

5) it's a 3/6 month contract FFS. The client doesn't need me to be 'on side', sing the company song or otherwise embrace the company ethos. They need a problem solving and then I go away - quietly.

To be frank, the majority of agents don't add any value to the transaction. So pull your fingers out and add some and then you might find the people at the coal face are willing to help you out. After all, if all agents went out of business tomorrow, clients would still need short-term contract workers and we'd all work out a way to make the deal happen.

I realise you may think the above is harsh, and I have dealt with some good, honest, helpful agents. In return I try to make sure they get something out of me (apart from money) but your business has so many knobs infesting it that I have no way of knowing in advance (cue XX rant from others!) whether you are one or not. I'm therefore super cautious and, as a business, I'm not going to give you anything for free.

[duke748]

Genuine question....

How would you guys suggest that agents source new contracts for you which is ethical and not annoying to anyone concerned?

Honesty perhaps ?

[GreenhitheLee]

I wanted to give you a view from an agents persepective.

You have to realise that a lot of HR / Recruitment Managers / Managed Agents are now involved in the recruiting process and often even more clueless than some agents about the technology they are recruiting for.

These are often failed recruiters (you know the types!) I got asked by a such like person for a contractor with prefereably 7 years .NET Expereince once!! So that gives you an idea of their expertise.

So... a lot of the time asking for references is an arse covering excercise for them and us.

Normally. when they like a CV, I always get asked:

1) Have they worked for you before?
2) Have you taken references?

Therefore, its always good when we have done this for due dilligence. I wouldnt do this until we have given you the company name and details of the role.

I wont lie, yes we use the names etc for future use, as if you specialise in a niche area (ala .NET), its good to know who looks for these skills. This is perfect for when one of your existing contractors contract finishes as you can then call the new contact to see if they could use a contractors with skills specific to their area.

Until someone else comes up with a better and more relevant way of sourcing New Contracts, this the a tried and tested way.

Genuine question....

How would you guys suggest that agents source new contracts for you which is ethical and not annoying to anyone concerned?

[Mordac]

If they ask for references (which has happened to me) then I don't mind as long as it isn't the current employee.

At the end of the day there are a lot of bulltulipter contractors out there and an agent has to protect his rep with the client and not forward on someone who is going to embarrass him on interviews.

Totally understandable as far as I am concerned.

Wouldn't do it with no job spec though.

With respect, it's naive people like you who cause this sort of thing to perpetuate. If everyone just told agents (politely) that we were not going to supply references just to give them a bunch of free sales leads, they wouldn't waste their time trying it on.

[weboo]

Ask for the name of the client as you would hate to duplicate your CV anywhere. Remember, just becuase he/she gives you a name...it does not mean the contract is live or real...they could be still be bored looking for other people to play telesales with.

I normally do not give any details to those agencies (you know who) and always ask them to email with the jobspec before doing anything.

After all, to be ringing you, they have your CV already and all the info they need right!

[chicane]

Wouldn't do it with no job spec though.

I'm tempted to wait until an interview offer, or at least naming of the client, next time. It's easy enough for an agent to fabricate a job spec.

[Robwg]

If they ask for references (which has happened to me) then I don't mind as long as it isn't the current employee.

At the end of the day there are a lot of bulltulipter contractors out there and an agent has to protect his rep with the client and not forward on someone who is going to embarrass him on interviews.

Totally understandable as far as I am concerned.

Wouldn't do it with no job spec though.

[tim123]

Not really, but it seems to be the case that the majority of roles within my area of expertise lie with the XX agencies. I mean, some of those contracts must be genuine.... right?

In my experience not. I don't reply to their mails any more.

tim

[VectraMan]

In my long experience (three contracts), the agents that have got me work have never asked for any kind of reference. Only the timewasters have (and I'm embaressed to say the first time I did actually give some names ).

Last time round I was talking to an agent about a role, which sounded a perfect match for me and I was really confident I was going to get this one and was just waiting to arrange an interview. But then the agent started telling me about how they only put one person forward for the role, and because of that they check references beforehand and even promised they'd never be used for sales leads, honest.

As it happened I was then offered a 1 month extension to my current contract, which I took mainly because I was so depressed at the thought of entering the market again and having to deal with agents.

Presuambly XX do have a fair few genuine clients, so I can only assume those clients are completely unaware of the reputation XX have amongst contractors otherwise they wouldn't use them. And I'd be they're not the cheapest of agents.

[expat]

Not really, but it seems to be the case that the majority of roles within my area of expertise lie with the XX agencies. I mean, some of those contracts must be genuine.... right?

Thanks everybody else for your feedback.

No. Sorry. Don't despair, you only need one. But you won't get it from XX.

[chicane]

Do you really want the agro of dealing with S3 - sorry XX - ?
Anyway, it's a blatant lead trawl, as others have already confirmed.

Not really, but it seems to be the case that the majority of roles within my area of expertise lie with the XX agencies. I mean, some of those contracts must be genuine.... right?

Thanks everybody else for your feedback.