Reply to: Contracting in Ireland - Worth it?

[stek]

Remember a lot ok uk fi tech will be moving to Dublin for Brexit (no passporting) - get your foot in the door 1st

Which will drive the rates down.

Remember the IFSC is taking off again, but as usual no provision has been made for the projected influx of people, no schools, housing (already through the roof) and worst of all - roads, Dublin easily the worst city for driving I've ever worked in.

[tarbera]

Remember a lot ok uk fi tech will be moving to Dublin for Brexit (no passporting) - get your foot in the door 1st

[stek]

Mind I ask what you mean by this?

Contracting backwater - same roles, same places, same people.

[heyya99]

Quick in the head calc...

€800 a will net you about €8k a month, less €3k essentials (rental, LUAS, etc) - say €1 for frugal living, €1.5 for a bit more, €3.5k, £3k sterling, that's £36k so nearly. But whilst there is a contracting market here - it's quite small and it's knowing people, and rates TBH aren't normally in €800 a day region for anything really, and only then cos they want perm and most people have effed off to UK.

To be honest if they're offering €800 a day in IRL you'd get £1k a day in UK, but part of me says those days have gone.

It's contacting backwater here but worth a punt, an Irish Punt (geddit?!) just don't go in Noctor's pub on Sheriff St Lower like I did...

Mind I ask what you mean by this?

[northernladyuk]

€800 a day is top rate in Ireland, in fact I've only ever seen one as high as that (they generally don't pay that well) - that was for AIB but dropped a lot after the interview.

Tax/PRSI/USC will eat up 45% of gross, but the big killer is the cost of everything, truly eye-watering day in day out, accommodation being the biggest, in Dublin a two bed city centre Dublin 2 address about €2500/3000 a month. Outside cheaper but transportation is a nightmare, driving horrible..

Good thing is Dublin is quite vibrant in the summer months, to be honest now it's flat as fook, I'm bored rigid here.

I've had a year here and I've had enough, it's too expensive, and not enough going on if you're here alone or not a family. It's a bit like UK 1977....

I'd love to retire here but even though I'm 56 I'm nowhere near that stage!

Brexit won't matter, the CTA will see to that, UK/IRL are too intertwined and have been for 1000 years, citizens of either are not considered foreign in the other and are not under immigration control.

What's your skillset?

You are living in a Northside garden shed, so it's not going to be great in a Status Red snow and ice warning.

Agree with Brexit. The UK's Ireland Act 1949 states 'Ireland is not a foreign country'.

[stek]

If you go with Icon for director umbrella, they are with taxsaver.ie and you'll get the full LUAS (Tram), bus and Train in Dublin for €216 a mo, tax deductible fully making it €106 or so effectively. Just about the only bargain in Ireland apart the the nail clippers I bought.

[stek]

£1k a day wasn't rare at all a few years ago when Solvency II was coming in, but that demand seems to have largely disappeared now. I have seen a few £1k a day roles going in England but they usually seem to want people with 10-15 years experience, and they seem to be very rare. I bet a lot of the 4 figure day rate roles go directly to people who've already got a relationship with the client, therefore not being advertised through agencies. The actuarial community in England is very small, if we get a CV from somebody at another insurer, there's a good chance somebody working with us already knows them. I guess it's even smaller in Dublin. This means reputations are very important and can have a big effect if you do a really good job or a really bad job.

I think based on what people with similar skills to me are earning, I'd probably be able to get £600-£800 a day in England if the right contract came up. I just thought Dublin might be a good experience and the role sounds perfect for me, think I could really do a good job and impress.

£36k saved up isn't as great as I initially though. Those housing costs are triple what I pay now! I'm also a big fan of staying close to work, so a daily commute is not an option (although a weekly commute would be fine, I guess the lack of ability to claim travel+living expenses doesn't really make this appealing). Mind you, it's still more than the average household earns GROSS of tax so it's not something to turn one's nose up at!

I'm the kind of person who will put his hand in the fire if somebody tells him not to, so you just know I'm going straight to Noctor's pub if I do go to Dublin now.

Accommodation is the killer here - not so much the expense, the getting - anything decent or even half decent is gone before you can blink, and I'm not joking.

Last week I was wondering why traffic was worse than usual, murder on North Strand (ie only real main route to IFSC) something to do with the current Hutch-Kinahan gang feud, of which Noctor's is a part. Don't go! one guy went in and was refused service cause 'it looked like you want something'....

Never go in any Dublin pub that doesn't have any windows. There's a reason...

Lot's don't have any windows.

Still like it here though - I love GAA, Croker Park, Howth, Uilleann Pipes, there's a lot of good things, so don't think it's all bad.

Lot's of Poles BTW, more than the usual for some reason!

[stek]

I dont know ireland but if you were going through a UK Ltd you would be billing 16,000 a month. Corp tax is 20% and rent plus food is 2K a month.

Youd take out 24K a year and leave the rest in the company and not pay any more tax.

When you earn 800 a day an accountant for 1,000 is well worth it

Thing is in Ireland there is no concept of dividends. You are taxed on normal PAYE rates on all withdrawals.

CT is 12.5% in Ireland BTW but that serves no purpose for one-man corps like us.

Tax breaks are much more generous in UK, all you get in Ireland are genuine 100% business expenses, no mobile phone personal use, the only thing I was able to claim is LUAS etc via taxpayer.ie, otherwise nothing, and first three months accommodation as relocation costs, after that even though you might have other home and expenses elsewhere - nothing.

Motoring expenses too are much higher here - car insurance is 4 times more, and road tax is £1500 a year for basically anything not a Euro-box. Plus you get to pay road tolls. And a toll for the Port tunnel.

Even though it's a much smaller (Dublin plus the rest) country, and nothing like as cosmopolitan as even the North of UK, everything costs 50/75% more, I just had a cup of coffee, and a bacon and egg sandwich here on the less-salubrious Northside, €11, £9. Same would £3 or £4 quid back home.

Plastic bags are 70 cents! for a crappy cheap one, 5p max in UK. Really pissing me off as you can tell!

I do like it here like I say believe it or not, but after a year here I've had enough, back home based on mostly everything being the wrong side of in my favour here - mainly the cost of stuff. One or two things ok, but it's everything!!

[LordoftheLance]

Quick in the head calc...

€800 a will net you about €8k a month, less €3k essentials (rental, LUAS, etc) - say €1 for frugal living, €1.5 for a bit more, €3.5k, £3k sterling, that's £36k so nearly. But whilst there is a contracting market here - it's quite small and it's knowing people, and rates TBH aren't normally in €800 a day region for anything really, and only then cos they want perm and most people have effed off to UK.

To be honest if they're offering €800 a day in IRL you'd get £1k a day in UK, but part of me says those days have gone.

It's contacting backwater here but worth a punt, an Irish Punt (geddit?!) just don't go in Noctor's pub on Sheriff St Lower like I did...

£1k a day wasn't rare at all a few years ago when Solvency II was coming in, but that demand seems to have largely disappeared now. I have seen a few £1k a day roles going in England but they usually seem to want people with 10-15 years experience, and they seem to be very rare. I bet a lot of the 4 figure day rate roles go directly to people who've already got a relationship with the client, therefore not being advertised through agencies. The actuarial community in England is very small, if we get a CV from somebody at another insurer, there's a good chance somebody working with us already knows them. I guess it's even smaller in Dublin. This means reputations are very important and can have a big effect if you do a really good job or a really bad job.

I think based on what people with similar skills to me are earning, I'd probably be able to get £600-£800 a day in England if the right contract came up. I just thought Dublin might be a good experience and the role sounds perfect for me, think I could really do a good job and impress.

£36k saved up isn't as great as I initially though. Those housing costs are triple what I pay now! I'm also a big fan of staying close to work, so a daily commute is not an option (although a weekly commute would be fine, I guess the lack of ability to claim travel+living expenses doesn't really make this appealing). Mind you, it's still more than the average household earns GROSS of tax so it's not something to turn one's nose up at!

I'm the kind of person who will put his hand in the fire if somebody tells him not to, so you just know I'm going straight to Noctor's pub if I do go to Dublin now.

[LondonPM1]

Quick in the head calc...

€800 a will net you about €8k a month, less €3k essentials (rental, LUAS, etc) - say €1 for frugal living, €1.5 for a bit more, €3.5k, £3k sterling, that's £36k so nearly. But whilst there is a contracting market here - it's quite small and it's knowing people, and rates TBH aren't normally in €800 a day region for anything really, and only then cos they want perm and most people have effed off to UK.

To be honest if they're offering €800 a day in IRL you'd get £1k a day in UK, but part of me says those days have gone.

It's contacting backwater here but worth a punt, an Irish Punt (geddit?!) just don't go in Noctor's pub on Sheriff St Lower like I did...

I dont know ireland but if you were going through a UK Ltd you would be billing 16,000 a month. Corp tax is 20% and rent plus food is 2K a month.

Youd take out 24K a year and leave the rest in the company and not pay any more tax.

When you earn 800 a day an accountant for 1,000 is well worth it

[LondonPM1]

I'm an actuary, still south of 30 so still got a long career ahead of me, just want to build up a nice nest egg while I'm young and able to move around for work without having to worry about kids. The agent seems pretty confident I'll be able to get the full €800 a day but of course nothing will be taken for granted until the pen has hit the paper!

It sounds very expensive. My desire is to be able to save £40k-£50k a year after tax, do you think that would be doable living fairly frugally(assuming no massive swings in the exchange rate)? My wife and I aren't big spenders and aren't big fans of nightlife. Plenty of nice outdoor places for us to go and visit to keep us busy, so hopefully being flat isn't too much of an issue. The wife's originally from Ireland too so it could be nice for her (on the other hand there's a risk she falls in love and wants to move back forever!).

Totally do it - i started contracting at 28 and never looked back

And I am unashamed to say I did it for the money which was twice my perm rate if you are clever about retained funds in limited company rather then the mindset nonsence i see on these boards

I had little time on the bench as well

You d be mad not to do it

[stek]

I'm an actuary, still south of 30 so still got a long career ahead of me, just want to build up a nice nest egg while I'm young and able to move around for work without having to worry about kids. The agent seems pretty confident I'll be able to get the full €800 a day but of course nothing will be taken for granted until the pen has hit the paper!

It sounds very expensive. My desire is to be able to save £40k-£50k a year after tax, do you think that would be doable living fairly frugally(assuming no massive swings in the exchange rate)? My wife and I aren't big spenders and aren't big fans of nightlife. Plenty of nice outdoor places for us to go and visit to keep us busy, so hopefully being flat isn't too much of an issue. The wife's originally from Ireland too so it could be nice for her (on the other hand there's a risk she falls in love and wants to move back forever!).

Quick in the head calc...

€800 a will net you about €8k a month, less €3k essentials (rental, LUAS, etc) - say €1 for frugal living, €1.5 for a bit more, €3.5k, £3k sterling, that's £36k so nearly. But whilst there is a contracting market here - it's quite small and it's knowing people, and rates TBH aren't normally in €800 a day region for anything really, and only then cos they want perm and most people have effed off to UK.

To be honest if they're offering €800 a day in IRL you'd get £1k a day in UK, but part of me says those days have gone.

It's contacting backwater here but worth a punt, an Irish Punt (geddit?!) just don't go in Noctor's pub on Sheriff St Lower like I did...

[LordoftheLance]

€800 a day is top rate in Ireland, in fact I've only ever seen one as high as that (they generally don't pay that well) - that was for AIB but dropped a lot after the interview.

Tax/PRSI/USC will eat up 45% of gross, but the big killer is the cost of everything, truly eye-watering day in day out, accommodation being the biggest, in Dublin a two bed city centre Dublin 2 address about €2500/3000 a month. Outside cheaper but transportation is a nightmare, driving horrible..

Good thing is Dublin is quite vibrant in the summer months, to be honest now it's flat as fook, I'm bored rigid here.

I've had a year here and I've had enough, it's too expensive, and not enough going on if you're here alone or not a family. It's a bit like UK 1977....

I'd love to retire here but even though I'm 56 I'm nowhere near that stage!

Brexit won't matter, the CTA will see to that, UK/IRL are too intertwined and have been for 1000 years, citizens of either are not considered foreign in the other and are not under immigration control.

What's your skillset?

I'm an actuary, still south of 30 so still got a long career ahead of me, just want to build up a nice nest egg while I'm young and able to move around for work without having to worry about kids. The agent seems pretty confident I'll be able to get the full €800 a day but of course nothing will be taken for granted until the pen has hit the paper!

It sounds very expensive. My desire is to be able to save £40k-£50k a year after tax, do you think that would be doable living fairly frugally(assuming no massive swings in the exchange rate)? My wife and I aren't big spenders and aren't big fans of nightlife. Plenty of nice outdoor places for us to go and visit to keep us busy, so hopefully being flat isn't too much of an issue. The wife's originally from Ireland too so it could be nice for her (on the other hand there's a risk she falls in love and wants to move back forever!).

[LordoftheLance]

Although the rate is good, for £70k outside of London and a generous pension I would seriously consider, even with the rate on offer, whether it's worth the risk.

If you still want to plough ahead...

A) We don't know yet.
B) You need to consider double taxation. You could still be liable for UK tax, depending on the tax already paid on earnings in Ireland. It is worth noting that you can use your UK Ltd if your register for a PRSI exemption. It used to be for up to 183 days per year (watch your number of days spent in Ireland) averaged over I think it was a couple of years. For the rate you're likely to be earning go to a specialist to advise you the best route to take although any of the specialists I contacted in Ireland were reassuringly expensive back in 2011.
C) I would say at the current exchange rates you could be better off than on £70k in the UK. €800 is currently approx £700+ per day, a good rate by any measure. Unless you're looking at hedging there will always be exchange rate risk. I was bitten in 2012 by accepting a contract when the exchange rate had been at approx 1.15-1.20 for the second half of 2011 when I was first there for it then to climb to nearly 1.30 when I was there for a second stint in the second half of 2012. I was ready to pull the plug if the exchange tanked much further.

The following looks quite useful and up to date: Contracting in Ireland with a UK Limited Company - Guide to Irish Tax | Fenero

While I agree I'm currently in a great position, I'd really like to save up a huge sum of money so in 5-6 years time we can start a family and be able to relax a bit when it comes to working. I think contracting will be the easiest way to get to that position, my simple sums tell me I should be able to double the amount I can save each year (Of course there is a huge assumption that I won't spent long periods on the bench).


Thanks, I will take a look at that guide. I will have to look into the costs of hedging the currency risk (I did work in a role that involved setting up hedges so I know a bit more than the average guy!)

[stek]

€800 a day is top rate in Ireland, in fact I've only ever seen one as high as that (they generally don't pay that well) - that was for AIB but dropped a lot after the interview.

Tax/PRSI/USC will eat up 45% of gross, but the big killer is the cost of everything, truly eye-watering day in day out, accommodation being the biggest, in Dublin a two bed city centre Dublin 2 address about €2500/3000 a month. Outside cheaper but transportation is a nightmare, driving horrible..

Good thing is Dublin is quite vibrant in the summer months, to be honest now it's flat as fook, I'm bored rigid here.

I've had a year here and I've had enough, it's too expensive, and not enough going on if you're here alone or not a family. It's a bit like UK 1977....

I'd love to retire here but even though I'm 56 I'm nowhere near that stage!

Brexit won't matter, the CTA will see to that, UK/IRL are too intertwined and have been for 1000 years, citizens of either are not considered foreign in the other and are not under immigration control.

What's your skillset?