Reply to: Flown to the UK for a contract, but informed on arrival the contract cannot yet start

[jmo21]

Anyways - I wanted to complete the thread so people knew what happened.

2 years, 3 months later, we get an update!

I've been on the edge of my seat!

[Toebs2]

No this is quite a common scenario. The mistake OP made was to fly in on a Friday ? You really should have made plans to land in on Sunday evening and in my opinion the agent did give you enough notice but you were in mid air to take notice!

How can that be? they had already told me the contract was signed. That's not a "maybe". It was the requirement I gave them for taking the flight. There is no scenario once that has been said where they can be or not be giving me enough notice - we are no longer in a "notice" scenario.

I agree with Psycho though, I doubt this contract will happen. Forget it, move on.

Anyways - I wanted to complete the thread so people knew what happened.

The contract did happen, I was there for three and extended once for three more, at which point I was happy to stop and they also were done with the project.

[Toebs2]

Is this thread by a sockie? i really cannot beleive the what's gone on here.

No, I'm a real, actual person. The only strings being pulled are those by millions of years of evolution built into the older brain, and that's plenty enough to try to deal with, without adding more =-)

[fullyautomatix]

Is this thread by a sockie? i really cannot beleive the what's gone on here.

No this is quite a common scenario. The mistake OP made was to fly in on a Friday ? You really should have made plans to land in on Sunday evening and in my opinion the agent did give you enough notice but you were in mid air to take notice!

I agree with Psycho though, I doubt this contract will happen. Forget it, move on.

[BrilloPad]

Is this thread by a sockie? i really cannot beleive the what's gone on here.

I doubt it. I have had vaguely similar - however not in the same league atall.

I am sure it has been said many times - agents will lie.

[washed up contractor]

Is this thread by a sockie? i really cannot beleive the what's gone on here.

[Toebs]

Sounds like Hays just cannot be bothered now. Id be surprised if this contract happened now.

They lied to you up front, possibly its fallen through, they don't care its caused you hassle. Personally, I wouldnt have commited to being more than £10 out of pocket with these idiots unless it was sorted.

A lesson from this is to confirm matters directly with the client. Do not rely on the agency. It's obvious, of course - any third party, especially those with their own agenda, cannot necessarily be relied upon, and so in matters of importance cannot be relied upon.

[Scruff]

There is no Agency who will amend your contract, once you have signed it (particularly if the term(s) that you wish to amend are detrimental to themselves).

[psychocandy]

I emailed Hays today.

There was no reply.

I thought the discussion would be easier in email, so I waited until 4.30pm before phoning.

I phoned, and was put through to not the original member of staff who handled the case (who was on holiday for a week, and is now unwell), nor the second (who had emailed me) but a third.

I explained the issue was not that the contract was being negotiated, but that after I had explicitly instructed Hays I would only relocate when all the paperwork was complete, I had been assured all the papework was complete.

This member of staff explained the problem lay with UCAS as they had requested changes in their standard contract between UCAS and Hays.

This meant a contract had not been signed at the time I had been assured a contract had been signed, which was the key issue, and the issue I had just explicitly described.

I did not say this to him as this was clear, and therefore it seemed being intentionally ignored.

I am continuing now with my earlier in-flight contracts, and have an interview on Wednesday. I have explained the situation to them.

I expect this contract will occur, although there is some uncertainty as the legal departments are still discussing the contract and until that is settled, it is not settled.

Sounds like Hays just cannot be bothered now. Id be surprised if this contract happened now.

They lied to you up front, possibly its fallen through, they don't care its caused you hassle. Personally, I wouldnt have commited to being more than £10 out of pocket with these idiots unless it was sorted.

[Toebs]

Hays changed my contract after QDOS failed it and accepted most recommendations, this is about 3 years ago. Probably it depends on which part of Hays you're dealing with.

I'll report back with the outcome, when I have it.

[Eirikur]

Googling indicates other contractors having been successful in asking for IR35-related changes to Hays contracts, so I have some hope - on the other hand, my dimming view of agencies goes against that hope.

Hays changed my contract after QDOS failed it and accepted most recommendations, this is about 3 years ago. Probably it depends on which part of Hays you're dealing with.

[Toebs]

I emailed Hays today.

There was no reply.

I thought the discussion would be easier in email, so I waited until 4.30pm before phoning.

I phoned, and was put through to not the original member of staff who handled the case (who was on holiday for a week, and is now unwell), nor the second (who had emailed me) but a third.

I explained the issue was not that the contract was being negotiated, but that after I had explicitly instructed Hays I would only relocate when all the paperwork was complete, I had been assured all the papework was complete.

This member of staff explained the problem lay with UCAS as they had requested changes in their standard contract between UCAS and Hays.

This meant a contract had not been signed at the time I had been assured a contract had been signed, which was the key issue, and the issue I had just explicitly described.

I did not say this to him as this was clear, and therefore it seemed being intentionally ignored.

I am continuing now with my earlier in-flight contracts, and have an interview on Wednesday. I have explained the situation to them.

I expect this contract will occur, although there is some uncertainty as the legal departments are still discussing the contract and until that is settled, it is not settled.

[Toebs]

Are you preparing yourself for a situation where you want to make contract amendments and Hays refuse to make them? Would you suck them up or walk away?

A very good question.

Since I have (again, in my inexperience) signed, any changes can come only with their agreement.

Googling indicates other contractors having been successful in asking for IR35-related changes to Hays contracts, so I have some hope - on the other hand, my dimming view of agencies goes against that hope.

I'll save you the time waiting for an answer - they won't.

Good IR35 investigation cover is vital for peace of mind, and it's well worth looking around at the best options. For example some insurers have an excess of £250 on any claim, whereas cover provided against tax investigations via membership of a trade association would have no excess at all (meaning that if you need to claim, the insurance seller is immediately more expensive than the trade association, even if you ignore the plethora of other benefits).

IR35 insurance - full insurance, including against the taxes to be paid if an IR35 claim succeeds - seems to cost so much less than the potential losses than it's a no-brainer.

The problem for me I think is if I present the contract to QDos, they consider it outside, ask for changes, and Hays refuse those changes. I suspect in that scenario, given QDos will have deemed the contract indefensible, I will need to leave, to cut my exposure and potential losses.

[TheFaQQer]

I have since then investigated the issue more closely and I think I need to obtain IR35 insurance from QDos. They will review the contract between Hays and myself, and provide any changes necessary to be outside IR35.

Are you preparing yourself for a situation where you want to make contract amendments and Hays refuse to make them? Would you suck them up or walk away?

I do not expect they will stand by their contract to the extent of covering the legal costs of a claim.

I'll save you the time waiting for an answer - they won't.

Good IR35 investigation cover is vital for peace of mind, and it's well worth looking around at the best options. For example some insurers have an excess of £250 on any claim, whereas cover provided against tax investigations via membership of a trade association would have no excess at all (meaning that if you need to claim, the insurance seller is immediately more expensive than the trade association, even if you ignore the plethora of other benefits).

[Toebs]

If the client wants you and the only hurdle is Hays, it will probably be OK.

This is my feeling also.