Reply to: How do you handle disgruntled permanent staff and management

[LondonManc]

If I were you I'd just be sticking my invoice in to the agency along with the signed timesheet and then chase it like any other debt. Regardless of whatever verbal discussions you have around notice periods, you have a signed timesheet from the client so are entitled to get paid, end of. Like someone has already said, IF they have a sound legal basis for taking action against you for breach of your contract, that is a separate issue and should not prevent them paying you what they owe. I think you're over analyzing this and in your position getting the invoice+timesheet into the agent would be my top priority and then chase it as you would any other debt, making sure any late payment you add interest on.

This. I've read on here before that the two are completely separate issues. If they have a claim for, say, £500, for ten day's commission, that has no affect on the invoice/signed timesheet submission that you've submitted for £3,000. There's no netting done; it's a simple case of they owe you three grand. If they can prove that you owe them the £500 for breach, let them prove it.

[Willapp]

No, we've broken it down into it's simplest terms. I can give notice, I can take time off. I think I just needed the sage advice of other contractors on here who aren't as blinded by loathing and distrust of the client and agent as I am at present.

The issue here really is the agency getting their knickers in a twist and trying to frighten me into going back to get commission on what would now be only 3 days left in the week.

Looking at it now, the worst they could do is attempt to withhold payment of last weeks invoice but I'd be willing to go all the way to recover those costs. As far as I'm concerned, especially with IR35 in place, working notice if they tell me to work it would only show me as being under direction and control...

If I were you I'd just be sticking my invoice in to the agency along with the signed timesheet and then chase it like any other debt. Regardless of whatever verbal discussions you have around notice periods, you have a signed timesheet from the client so are entitled to get paid, end of. Like someone has already said, IF they have a sound legal basis for taking action against you for breach of your contract, that is a separate issue and should not prevent them paying you what they owe. I think you're over analyzing this and in your position getting the invoice+timesheet into the agent would be my top priority and then chase it as you would any other debt, making sure any late payment you add interest on.

[Old Greg]

No, we've broken it down into it's simplest terms. I can give notice, I can take time off. I think I just needed the sage advice of other contractors on here who aren't as blinded by loathing and distrust of the client and agent as I am at present.

The issue here really is the agency getting their knickers in a twist and trying to frighten me into going back to get commission on what would now be only 3 days left in the week.

Looking at it now, the worst they could do is attempt to withhold payment of last weeks invoice but I'd be willing to go all the way to recover those costs. As far as I'm concerned, especially with IR35 in place, working notice if they tell me to work it would only show me as being under direction and control...

Tell the you will go back and then phone in sick.

[Illustrious]

If you are contractually permitted to give notice and you are contractually permitted not to work any day during your contract, then the pimp is contractually obliged to pay you for days worked (with some potential complexity if the days are worked but timesheet not signed). Am I missing something?

No, we've broken it down into it's simplest terms. I can give notice, I can take time off. I think I just needed the sage advice of other contractors on here who aren't as blinded by loathing and distrust of the client and agent as I am at present.

The issue here really is the agency getting their knickers in a twist and trying to frighten me into going back to get commission on what would now be only 3 days left in the week.

Looking at it now, the worst they could do is attempt to withhold payment of last weeks invoice but I'd be willing to go all the way to recover those costs. As far as I'm concerned, especially with IR35 in place, working notice if they tell me to work it would only show me as being under direction and control...

[Old Greg]

It's my main fear to be honest. Although what damages they could suffer as a consequence of me handing my notice in and then not working the 5 days after would be hard to prove on their part. Otherwise, why not have a notice period of 45 days? Or just prevent people from quitting altogether.

I do have another get out though. If they say anything I'll point out how the job I applied for and the one I received are not in the same place. I thought I was working at the head office, and the email from the agent confirms as much. Dev team is in another office nearly 35 miles away which on country roads adds an extra hour to my journey....but I'll save that just in case.

If you are contractually permitted to give notice and you are contractually permitted not to work any day during your contract, then the pimp is contractually obliged to pay you for days worked (with some potential complexity if the days are worked but timesheet not signed). Am I missing something?

[SlipTheJab]

At the end of the day two wrongs don't make a right, no matter whether you were supposed to give notice or not, they can't withhold your money, if they are entitled to compensation for you leaving without working your notice they have to raise that as a separate claim and take you to court (which they wont), if they don't honour the invoice you can take them to court for it, small claims I would imagine?

[Illustrious]

That's what I was saying to you. They'll get their commission. They may also take your invoice as "damages".

Also, what Old Greg said is completely pertinent.

It's my main fear to be honest. Although what damages they could suffer as a consequence of me handing my notice in and then not working the 5 days after would be hard to prove on their part. Otherwise, why not have a notice period of 45 days? Or just prevent people from quitting altogether.

I do have another get out though. If they say anything I'll point out how the job I applied for and the one I received are not in the same place. I thought I was working at the head office, and the email from the agent confirms as much. Dev team is in another office nearly 35 miles away which on country roads adds an extra hour to my journey....but I'll save that just in case.

[LondonManc]

For clarity on what is in my contract regarding termination and notice, I've copied the whole thing on Termination and posted it here.



Anything in there that's alarming?

I understanding the giving of the notice, but no one, anywhere, is really under any obligation to work it.



What's to stop them from getting the money off the client and then just never payming me it? After all, my contract is with the agency, not the client. They can invoice them to their hearts content. I'm probably being way too paranoid though

That's what I was saying to you. They'll get their commission. They may also take your invoice as "damages".

Also, what Old Greg said is completely pertinent.

[Illustrious]

Is there an obligation to provide services while the contract is in force. Can you take leave when you want etc.?

No obligation, I can take leave when I choose as long as I tell the client I won't be in any specific days.

[Old Greg]

For clarity on what is in my contract regarding termination and notice, I've copied the whole thing on Termination and posted it here.



Anything in there that's alarming?

I understanding the giving of the notice, but no one, anywhere, is really under any obligation to work it.

Is there an obligation to provide services while the contract is in force. Can you take leave when you want etc.?

[Illustrious]

For clarity on what is in my contract regarding termination and notice, I've copied the whole thing on Termination and posted it here.



Anything in there that's alarming?

I understanding the giving of the notice, but no one, anywhere, is really under any obligation to work it.

They'll want their commission off your invoice, so it'll get sent; don't worry about that. Whether you get to find out that they've submitted it to the client or not is the more pertinent question.

What's to stop them from getting the money off the client and then just never payming me it? After all, my contract is with the agency, not the client. They can invoice them to their hearts content. I'm probably being way too paranoid though

[LondonManc]

My understanding is that even if no work was available I'm covered in the event they wished to end the contract. At the end if the day we're businesses too. However I'm not in the position to find that out since l terminated the agreement.

My timesheet is signed by the client, I'm concerned the agent in question will not process the invoice Unger the guise that I've breached contract.

Ordinarily I wouldn't be but the tone of the email and the fact that it's coming not from the agent with who I've conducted all my business so far but rather her boss is setting my spider sense tingling.

They'll want their commission off your invoice, so it'll get sent; don't worry about that. Whether you get to find out that they've submitted it to the client or not is the more pertinent question.

[SlipTheJab]

Looking through all these 17 pages, I just find myself wistfully thinking, "I'm sure Suity would have something to add of no value here."

FTFY

[MrMarkyMark]

How do you handle disgruntled permanent staff and management

Looking through all these 17 pages, I just find myself wistfully thinking, "I'm sure Suity would have something to add of value here."

[Old Greg]

In fairness, when I told the client I wouldn't be returning I didn't really give him much of an opportunity to say anything. I left the place and didn't look back. I emailed the recruiter and told them immediately and didn't hear so much as a peep until this morning, (which is odd, I thought I'd have heard yesterday), and it's now all about working a notice period.

The way I see it, whether I work a notice period or not is irrelevent. If I don't attend, I don't get my day rate, I'm out of pocket but willing to skip the money on account of me hating the place. The client doesn't have to pay me to attend when they clearly begrudge paying me even before I handed my notice in. The only party to get their knickers in a twist is the agent.

Just tell them you're on leave for a week and unavailable for work, and then give a week's notice to terminate the contract.