Rate negotation - when?

[tarbera]

Rate negotation - when?

WTF!? You say you're in a senior position to take people on going by your past posts. But to be honest, you sound like you really dont have a clue.

Lol - whatever

Many many people on here know me in real life rather than being a keyboard warrior

[BolshieBastard]

I would be more worried having 8 years as a permie on my CV, how you going to explain that one?

WTF!? You say you're in a senior position to take people on going by your past posts. But to be honest, you sound like you really dont have a clue.

[Boo]

I would be more worried having 8 years as a permie on my CV, how you going to explain that one?

"I worked for 8 years as a permanent employee before returning to contracting" ?

Boo

[sal]

I usually give a range on my day rate, and explain that it depends on the scope of work. Then when you get the role, you are in a better position to bargain.

Bizarrely, my current gig worked out that I gave my usual day rate range, and once offered the role, the agency offered me £50 MORE than the top of my range. BIZZARE!

More often than not the agent will want to to commit to a rate before sending your CV to the client. Of course you can try to negotiate this after you are chosen but as already explained this might backfire if you try to squeeze the agent too much. IT all depends on multitude of factors, how many candidates, how many agencies etc.

Nothing bizarre in what you described, they either work on a fixed margin with that client or what the client is paying is the top of your range + £150-200 so the agent felt sorry for you.

[slice16]

I usually give a range on my day rate, and explain that it depends on the scope of work. Then when you get the role, you are in a better position to bargain.

Bizarrely, my current gig worked out that I gave my usual day rate range, and once offered the role, the agency offered me £50 MORE than the top of my range. BIZZARE!

[tarbera]

Thanks for a lot of interesting viewpoints there. As it happens I was able to see the same contracts posted elsewhere with a daily rate range and my pitch was about right. I was considering the later stage when the client is interested so the agent may cut their margin just to make sure they get any kind of margin (at least that is how I think they work).

I would be more worried having 8 years as a permie on my CV, how you going to explain that one?

[Scipio]

What you describe can be accomplished but you need good info on how much the role pays and how many decent candidates are competing for it. Even then you need some negotiating skills as the agents can sniff bluffs quite easily. This can easily backfire leaving you with £0/day so tread carefully.

Thanks for the heads up Sal.

[sal]

Thanks for a lot of interesting viewpoints there. As it happens I was able to see the same contracts posted elsewhere with a daily rate range and my pitch was about right. I was considering the later stage when the client is interested so the agent may cut their margin just to make sure they get any kind of margin (at least that is how I think they work).

What you describe can be accomplished but you need good info on how much the role pays and how many decent candidates are competing for it. Even then you need some negotiating skills as the agents can sniff bluffs quite easily. This can easily backfire leaving you with £0/day so tread carefully.

[Scipio]

Thanks for a lot of interesting viewpoints there. As it happens I was able to see the same contracts posted elsewhere with a daily rate range and my pitch was about right. I was considering the later stage when the client is interested so the agent may cut their margin just to make sure they get any kind of margin (at least that is how I think they work).

[sal]

You will never know what the client is offering (while speaking to the agent), will you? You could probably know once you are at the Client site ( after some time ).

The text in bold was from the agent perspective as (s)he knows how much the client is paying. And i have had my time wasted a couple of times by agents spending couple of minutes describing the role etc. only to find out that my rate is much higher than what the role is paying and - no i wouldn't change my mind going for my rate -50%

[cherhill]

Hi, I am looking at getting back into contracting after a spell in permanent work (for the past 8 years).

Since then I am now getting pretty bored to say the least. Anyway previously I was a bit naive about getting the rate right, simply took what was on offer. These days I am being asked for my daily rate and perhaps at the start of this it is not the best place to commit to a rate? Let's say I mention a figure then the process rolls on and as yet nothing is signed. So, is it feasible to discuss after the interview and you understand more about the situation so as to review that earlier figure?

Thanks for any tips.

Think it's quite difficult to negotiate on rates at the moment when there are some many foreign workers who they can get to do it for less.

If you are in a niche market though then you should be able to do so.

Websties like itjobswatch is a good place to look for market rates btw.

[BolshieBastard]

Hi, I am looking at getting back into contracting after a spell in permanent work (for the past 8 years).

Since then I am now getting pretty bored to say the least. Anyway previously I was a bit naive about getting the rate right, simply took what was on offer. These days I am being asked for my daily rate and perhaps at the start of this it is not the best place to commit to a rate? Let's say I mention a figure then the process rolls on and as yet nothing is signed. So, is it feasible to discuss after the interview and you understand more about the situation so as to review that earlier figure?

Thanks for any tips.

Well you have to start somewhere so when an agent says how much do you want, you say "how much is the client looking to pay?"

Some agents will comeback with the client wants to test the market so hasnt given a figure, then you know its just a fishing exercise (most of the time).

People say to give a rate range after the agent says how much the client will pay ie £325 to £375. You'll find a couple of things.

If the agent says client was looking to pay £300, you'll generally be shifted out by the agent \ account manager as they can find other saps to do the work for £300 or less. Alternatively, you'll find you were pitched to the client at your bottom rate and you'll only be in a strong position to get a higher rate than that if the client absolutely only wants you.

End of the day you have to decide whether to accept the rate offered by the agent or play hardball and hold out for what you want.

In either case you may find you're working at a lower rate than the client was prepared to pay or taking a long time to find work because agents dont want to surrender their margin.

[FatLazyContractor]

You forgot how to do business in 8 years?

In most cases the rate negotiation is just a matter of squeezing the agency margin. The client already have a set number that they pay to the agency. It's not like you are a large consultancy that needs to first gather the requirement and assesses the scope of the work before giving a quote. You will be asked about your day rate in your first conversation with the agent, no point in wasting everyone's time if you expect £500 and the client is only paying £300.

You will never know what the client is offering (while speaking to the agent), will you? You could probably know once you are at the Client site ( after some time ).

Check the market rate in your technology from friends, colleagues who are contractors and use it as a starting point. If you don't get interviews, then you might want to lower your quote as most likely your skills / CV is bellow average and commands bellow average rate.

+1.

An alternative risky strategy (depending on your warchest/how desperate you are) is to go back to the agent after the interview and up your rate on the point that a lot more is expected of you than what's on the job spec. Could backfire, but nonetheless an option.

[sal]

Hi, I am looking at getting back into contracting after a spell in permanent work (for the past 8 years).

You forgot how to do business in 8 years?

In most cases the rate negotiation is just a matter of squeezing the agency margin. The client already have a set number that they pay to the agency. It's not like you are a large consultancy that needs to first gather the requirement and assesses the scope of the work before giving a quote. You will be asked about your day rate in your first conversation with the agent, no point in wasting everyone's time if you expect £500 and the client is only paying £300.

Check the market rate in your technology from friends, colleagues who are contractors and use it as a starting point. If you don't get interviews, then you might want to lower your quote as most likely your skills / CV is bellow average and commands bellow average rate.

[Scipio]

Hi, I am looking at getting back into contracting after a spell in permanent work (for the past 8 years).

Since then I am now getting pretty bored to say the least. Anyway previously I was a bit naive about getting the rate right, simply took what was on offer. These days I am being asked for my daily rate and perhaps at the start of this it is not the best place to commit to a rate? Let's say I mention a figure then the process rolls on and as yet nothing is signed. So, is it feasible to discuss after the interview and you understand more about the situation so as to review that earlier figure?

Thanks for any tips.