Reply to: The "why"

[Mordac]

I would go a bit further and say it made the all country look ridiculous...

I'll take a punt on this, but I'm guessing you're not familiar with the greatest works of Gordon Brown. Bearing in mind no-one in the country actually voted for him, aside from his constituents, if we need GB to make us look ridiculous, we really scraping the bottom.

[CryingSheep]

The EU is a political cult, and Britain has woken up and is frantically trying to leave.

[CryingSheep]

In short, Lisbon probably contributed more than any other single factor to the eventual 2016 Referendum. If that result is ever enacted, at least Lisbon will have done something positive for the UK (aside from making Gordon Brown look ridiculous).

I would go a bit further and say it made the all country look ridiculous...

[DimPrawn]

The EU is a political cult, and Britain has woken up and is frantically trying to leave.

[Mordac]

It's not all the way, like I said the most important decisions still require unanimous vote. The ones that require QMV will be based on population size, giving the UK additional weight.

One of the stated intentions of Lisbon was to get rid of vetoes*, and move to QMV. Where the UK (or anyone else) doesn't wish to participate in a scheme they can negotiate an opt-out (of which we have several). It doesn't change the policy, it merely regulates the extent of our participation in the policy. That is completely not the same as having a veto.

*And I accept that hasn't actually been fully achieved yet. However it is a stated policy direction, and I'm sure it will be fully fixed in future treaties.

Besides we signed the Lisbon Treaty, so we must have agreed to the new terms, no?

You have a short memory. Gordon Brown crept into a little back-room and signed it behind closed doors, having sent a Milliband to the actual ceremony. There was quite a lot of fuss about it at the time.

See if you can remember who said this (to Gordon Brown, in Parliament):

"This is not a treaty that Britain wanted or needed," he said. "It's a treaty you were so ashamed of you had to sign it in a room all on your own."

It was David Cameron (remember him?) and here's what else he said:

David Cameron has said "never again" to powers being transferred from the UK to Brussels without a referendum.

He said all future treaties would be put to a public vote as he outlined his new European policy after ruling out a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

He also promised a sovereignty bill if the Tories win the next election to "lock in" the supremacy of UK laws.

BBC NEWS | Politics | Cameron's 'never again' vow on EU

In short, Lisbon probably contributed more than any other single factor to the eventual 2016 Referendum. If that result is ever enacted, at least Lisbon will have done something positive for the UK (aside from making Gordon Brown look ridiculous).

[sal]

Not since the Lisbon Treaty changed all that. It's QMV all the way now.

It's not all the way, like I said the most important decisions still require unanimous vote. The ones that require QMV will be based on population size, giving the UK additional weight.

Besides we signed the Lisbon Treaty, so we must have agreed to the new terms, no?

[BrilloPad]

Trump could be willing to buy the UK as his purchase of Greenland fell through, he's still looking for some land.

I would prefer to join the USA than be part of the EU. If we have to be part of a big trading block, the USA is better.

Or maybe we could join China?

[Mordac]

What, this: There’s a lot wrong with this viral list about the Lisbon Treaty - Full Fact

The Lisbon Treaty changed a large number of policy areas from being ones that needed unanimity (thus giving states a veto) to ones that were decided by qualified majority.

Which is what I said. We still have some (not many) opt-outs, but we can't change or veto a policy, just choose not to adopt it.

[darmstadt]

Not since the Lisbon Treaty changed all that. It's QMV all the way now.

[darmstadt]

Not since the Lisbon Treaty changed all that. It's QMV all the way now.

What, this: There’s a lot wrong with this viral list about the Lisbon Treaty - Full Fact

[Mordac]

All important decisions about the EU future require unanimous vote, if we didn't like any of it we could have voted it down. Simple as that.

Not since the Lisbon Treaty changed all that. It's QMV all the way now.

[MasterBait]

Leaving the EU, there is no alternative EU and by leaving it effects millions of other people's lives.

Trump could be willing to buy the UK as his purchase of Greenland fell through, he's still looking for some land.

[sal]

If ClientCo were dictating all the contract terms, and had a timeline for Myco to go permie with no appeal process, and they wanted full financial control of MyCo, then hell yes. What you are describing, in EU terms, is not a contract. It is a takeover.

You are reading too much into it. I wish Brexiteers were scrutinising every aspect of the actual Brexit outcomes in such details.

My analogy is not directly translatable to Brexit, It was only a question to establish if you would be just as reckless with decisions when there is a tangible direct impact to your own business as you are with the future of the entire country. Instead of answering the simple question, you decided to nit pick at the details, which speaks volumes.

All important decisions about the EU future require unanimous vote, if we didn't like any of it we could have voted it down. Simple as that.

Ok but most of those things were actually caused by Labour mismanagement.

In terms of cancer we do not have the worst survival rates full details here Cancer survival in the UK improving, but lagging behind - study - BBC News also again was this due to us being in the EU during that period? I think really all you have done here is say look a think the UK is bad at and therefore it must be down to something I can equate to Brexit.

Wage stagnation? UK wage growth picks up to 11-year high - BBC News nah mate

I could review the rest of what you have said but the reality is you have lumped a load of supposed civil ills (some of which are just bollox) ,which by the way have nothing to do with Brexit, and tried to make out they were the result of all the bad people in the UK and nothing to do with Winky Mcfu<nut and the war criminal.

God you are thick, the "ills" above are the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis, where did I say they have anything to do with Brexit. I was just pointing at some facts, what happens as a result of economic downturn, which is widely expected (by ecenomic experts, not gammon Brexiteers) in an event of a no-deal Brexit. Sure Labour mismanagement didn't help, but it wasn't the sole reason for the scale of the disaster.

From the exact article that you linked there is a graph of wage growth against inflation. It's clearly visible how the wage growth fall lower than inflation immediately after 2008 and took 7 years to recover, so it only proves my point.

[original PM]

Nah, it only caused doubling of the Government debt, followed by austerity, causing lack of policing and investment in healthcare resulting in spike of violent crimes and preventable hospital deaths and one of the worse Cancer survival rates in the developed world etc. Wage stagnation vs. steady inflation, leaving everyone poorer in real terms. Lack of infrastructure investments, leaving us with one of the worst roads in the western world. And a host of other issues.

But no, no one that we are aware of had to sell their children to survive, is that what would be considered the break point where Brexit will be declared a bad move?

Ok but most of those things were actually caused by Labour mismanagement.

In terms of cancer we do not have the worst survival rates full details here Cancer survival in the UK improving, but lagging behind - study - BBC News also again was this due to us being in the EU during that period? I think really all you have done here is say look a think the UK is bad at and therefore it must be down to something I can equate to Brexit.

Wage stagnation? UK wage growth picks up to 11-year high - BBC News nah mate

I could review the rest of what you have said but the reality is you have lumped a load of supposed civil ills (some of which are just bollox) ,which by the way have nothing to do with Brexit, and tried to make out they were the result of all the bad people in the UK and nothing to do with Winky Mcfu<nut and the war criminal.

[BrilloPad]

There's a load more of that to come.

You looking forward to a GE?

Oh yes! Brexit party to form a government. That will show the EU......