Reply to: IR35 furor amongst the pidgeons

[fraymond]

I have an ongoing IR35 investigation and in 14 months the following has happened -

HMRC - send us copies of all your contracts for the last 4 years and can we meet
Reply - here is the contracts for last year, you shouldn't have asked for earlier years at that point in an enquiry and no we wont meet
HMRC - 6 months without a response then please complete this questionaire and give me a contact name at ClientCo
Reply - completed questionaire and 'no you can't have a client contact'
HMRC - not enough info to make a decision, can we talk to the client, have a copy of the upper level contract
Reply - no you can't have a client contact but happy to facilitate the the completion of a 'Confirmation of Arrangements', please send a template in the format you would like to be completed
Sent chasers
HMRC - further requests for meetings with me, the client and a copy of the upper level contract

I have professional representation but this is so frustrating - 14 months and it hasn't really gone anywhere !!

Zoomfwd, can you say anything more around the circumstances of their interest, nature of your business, why this came about?

[Contreras]

I have an ongoing IR35 investigation and in 14 months the following has happened -

HMRC - send us copies of all your contracts for the last 4 years and can we meet
Reply - here is the contracts for last year, you shouldn't have asked for earlier years at that point in an enquiry and no we wont meet
HMRC - 6 months without a response then please complete this questionaire and give me a contact name at ClientCo
Reply - completed questionaire and 'no you can't have a client contact'
HMRC - not enough info to make a decision, can we talk to the client, have a copy of the upper level contract
Reply - no you can't have a client contact but happy to facilitate the the completion of a 'Confirmation of Arrangements', please send a template in the format you would like to be completed
Sent chasers
HMRC - further requests for meetings with me, the client and a copy of the upper level contract

I have professional representation but this is so frustrating - 14 months and it hasn't really gone anywhere !!

Is this a good case for not having a named client contact on the contract?

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

Par for the course with HMRC and horribly stressful for you.

[zoomfwd]

Ongoing investigation

I have an ongoing IR35 investigation and in 14 months the following has happened -

HMRC - send us copies of all your contracts for the last 4 years and can we meet
Reply - here is the contracts for last year, you shouldn't have asked for earlier years at that point in an enquiry and no we wont meet
HMRC - 6 months without a response then please complete this questionaire and give me a contact name at ClientCo
Reply - completed questionaire and 'no you can't have a client contact'
HMRC - not enough info to make a decision, can we talk to the client, have a copy of the upper level contract
Reply - no you can't have a client contact but happy to facilitate the the completion of a 'Confirmation of Arrangements', please send a template in the format you would like to be completed
Sent chasers
HMRC - further requests for meetings with me, the client and a copy of the upper level contract

I have professional representation but this is so frustrating - 14 months and it hasn't really gone anywhere !!

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

So what difference does the panel think it will make to IR35 'casualties' now the inside/outside question is mandatory on the self-assessment form?

So long as people have done some due diligence before answering, very little IMV.

[Chugnut]

So what difference does the panel think it will make to IR35 'casualties' now the inside/outside question is mandatory on the self-assessment form?

Can't remember the wording of the question, but how can you give an inside/outside answer if you have 2 contracts in a year, 1 inside 1 outside?

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

So what difference does the panel think it will make to IR35 'casualties' now the inside/outside question is mandatory on the self-assessment form?

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

Sorry Escape I think we are talking at cross purposes.

I was making a general point that risk isn't just about probability, impact needs to be considered as well. The college was a example.

[escapeUK]

Er the college doesn't have a IR35 risk...

I was talking about risk management in general...

So you have a risk register and on it you have a risk/s that dont apply to your college, and you have classified this as high impact but not to the college. This doesnt strike you as completely stupid and a waste of time?

The duration of a contract is entirely irrelevant to whether it is caught by IR35.

Boo

Not sure about this, the longer you are at a gig the easier it is to fall into the working practises of the permies, and be seen and act as one of them.

[Boo]

Point is, I dont understand how \ why these guys who stay years at a place sleep at night. The only conclusion I can come to is they dont know about IR35 or, hide their head in the sand \ up their arse.

The duration of a contract is entirely irrelevant to whether it is caught by IR35.

Boo

[BolshieBastard]

I work at a large UK systems integrator (as a permie). In all the years I've worked on projects with contractors they've been effectively an augmentation to the workforce. Taking the same control and instruction from the project managers, having to book/request leave etc etc. Lots of them have been around for years, moving around various projects within the organisation. I would imagine they know what IR35 is (all those I've asked do) but they don't seem concerned about it. I'm not aware that any of them has ever been investigated either.

Yes, they sound like head in the sand (or rather up their arses) types. Personally, I have no problem with this type of 'contractor' being IR35 caught. They arent proper contractors if they stay years at the same client.

I know of one who has been at the same client 14 years! HTF can a client keep someone on contractor pay for 14 years? Where is the cost effectiveness in that?

Another contractor ex friend I know used to sneer at me because he was at the same client for about 6 years while I was staying upto 9 months before moving on (deliverables delivered) although at one client I stayed for over 3 years.

TBH, I was having sleepless nights as I knew my contract didnt match the working relationship so in the end decided enough was enough and left.

Point is, I dont understand how \ why these guys who stay years at a place sleep at night. The only conclusion I can come to is they dont know about IR35 or, hide their head in the sand \ up their arse.

Some people will get big tax bills if HMRC's increased investigations workload starts to deliver.

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

So your view is that the college would pay the extra tax/penalties/interest? Thats not my understanding. Though it would be sensible if contractor paid his share of NI and disguised employer paid their share in the scenario.

Er the college doesn't have a IR35 risk...

I was talking about risk management in general...

[adubya]

I work at a large UK systems integrator (as a permie). In all the years I've worked on projects with contractors they've been effectively an augmentation to the workforce. Taking the same control and instruction from the project managers, having to book/request leave etc etc. Lots of them have been around for years, moving around various projects within the organisation. I would imagine they know what IR35 is (all those I've asked do) but they don't seem concerned about it. I'm not aware that any of them has ever been investigated either.

[escapeUK]

I went through an ir35 investigation supported by PCG/qdos which was dropped by hmrc after about 6 months (iirc). A fellow contractor at the same client also had the same experience. They are very worrying and if I had lost I was facing substantial financial penalties.

Had you made a bug out plan? Or were you just going to give them the fruits of your labour?

Impact however is high, in terms of tax/penalties/interest.

On that basis I feel it should be high on most people's concerns.

So your view is that the college would pay the extra tax/penalties/interest? Thats not my understanding. Though it would be sensible if contractor paid his share of NI and disguised employer paid their share in the scenario.

[Archangel]

I went through an ir35 investigation supported by PCG/qdos which was dropped by hmrc after about 6 months (iirc). A fellow contractor at the same client also had the same experience. They are very worrying and if I had lost I was facing substantial financial penalties.