Poor service accountant

[Martin at NixonWilliams]

A great idea in principle but the reality is more of a pain in the proverbial.

The expenses would need to be declared on your P11D which isn't a problem in itself.

The problem arises when the P11D lands on the desk of the obligatory HMRC jobsworth who looks at the value of the expenses and decides they are all Benefits in Kind (BiK), despite being clearly told they were wholly, necessarily and exclusively for business purposes, and duly reduces your tax code for the next year by this amount.

Cue gnashing of teeth on your part whilst you or your accountant writes to HMRC and waits several months for them to sort this out.

I expense everything personally as I don't incur that many expenses so, hence, don't really have a need for a company credit card and every year, without fail, HMRC categorise my expenses as BiK's - they even dug up an expense figure from several years ago and used that against my tax code for a year when I never worked and hence never incurred any expenses. Seriously, wtf!!

This happens to me every year and has been for several years and is a right pain to sort out so, IMHO, I'd think twice before going down this path.

I have to agree that it is a pain that HMRC seem to randomly change tax codes for no apparent reason when the P11d and tax return have been completed correctly; however, this only seems to happen for a small proportion of our clients.

To resolve this, a phone call to the HMRC helpline normally does the job as they can change the tax code over the phone to remove the 'benefits' and reissue a standard tax code.

In the very unlikely event that you cannot get the 'benefits' removed then you may overpay tax via PAYE during the year but this will be all recalculated when completing the personal tax return at the yearend.

Martin

[Clippy]

If there is going to be a large volume of small value expenditure on a monthly basis it may be easier to account for this if you paid for the items personally and detail them on a personal expense claim form each month to reclaim them from the company. This reduces the paperwork burden as they will already be categorised on the form so you can retain the necessary receipts at home.

Thanks for the quick response. Using the personal account for rail tickets/lunch etc and getting reimbursed seems a practical approach. I shall contact you/Adele if i have any more queries.

A great idea in principle but the reality is more of a pain in the proverbial.

The expenses would need to be declared on your P11D which isn't a problem in itself.

The problem arises when the P11D lands on the desk of the obligatory HMRC jobsworth who looks at the value of the expenses and decides they are all Benefits in Kind (BiK), despite being clearly told they were wholly, necessarily and exclusively for business purposes, and duly reduces your tax code for the next year by this amount.

Cue gnashing of teeth on your part whilst you or your accountant writes to HMRC and waits several months for them to sort this out.

I expense everything personally as I don't incur that many expenses so, hence, don't really have a need for a company credit card and every year, without fail, HMRC categorise my expenses as BiK's - they even dug up an expense figure from several years ago and used that against my tax code for a year when I never worked and hence never incurred any expenses. Seriously, wtf!!

This happens to me every year and has been for several years and is a right pain to sort out so, IMHO, I'd think twice before going down this path.

[mongle]

Hi Martin,

Thanks for the quick response. Using the personal account for rail tickets/lunch etc and getting reimbursed seems a practical approach. I shall contact you/Adele if i have any more queries.

[Martin at NixonWilliams]

Hi Alan,

I am contemplating switching accountant for my LTD and would be thankful if you can confirm the above appraoch at NW.

I normally have a number of rail tickets as i travel to multiple locations in a week. I also have 20 odd lunch receipts every month. I would like to avoid copying these and putting them in the post every month. As stated above, would it be ok to mention the amounts and retain the receipts. I anyway use the business card for all these expenses and hence they would be in the bank statement.

Additionally, is there any online portal to view all the invoices and expenses sent during the year or would i need to maintain a seperate spreadsheet for that.. Please advise.

Hi Mongle

We do ask for copies of all receipts for items paid directly from the company bank account, if there are numerous receipts it is easier if these are copied onto a couple of sheets of A4 or sent across by email on a couple of scans.

The reason we ask for these is so that we can correctly allocate the payments as expenses under the correct headings in the accounts (this cannot always be identified from the bank statements alone) and to ensure that your monthly profit calculations are not overstated.

If there is going to be a large volume of small value expenditure on a monthly basis it may be easier to account for this if you paid for the items personally and detail them on a personal expense claim form each month to reclaim them from the company. This reduces the paperwork burden as they will already be categorised on the form so you can retain the necessary receipts at home.

Then only use the company bank account for larger value purchases or items that must be paid from the company account to be fully allowable (company mobile phone, childcare etc.).

I hope this helps, if you have any more questions just let me know or give the office a call/email. Adele in our new business team will be more than happy to run through exactly what we can offer you.

Martin

[mongle]

If you can PM me or email me directly (alanatnixonwilliams.com) I will look into this and advise further.

From what you state there has been some misunderstanding, some clients sent in dozens of train tickets and what we normally do is copy them and return for the client to retain. We also advise that in future for the client to retain the tickets and just state on the expense form that you have retained the receipts etc.

If this is not the case let me know.

Alan

Hi Alan,

I am contemplating switching accountant for my LTD and would be thankful if you can confirm the above appraoch at NW.

I normally have a number of rail tickets as i travel to multiple locations in a week. I also have 20 odd lunch receipts every month. I would like to avoid copying these and putting them in the post every month. As stated above, would it be ok to mention the amounts and retain the receipts. I anyway use the business card for all these expenses and hence they would be in the bank statement.

Additionally, is there any online portal to view all the invoices and expenses sent during the year or would i need to maintain a seperate spreadsheet for that.. Please advise.

[kaiser78]

Just an update, I want to say that Alan and Nixon Williams provided a really quick response and sorted out the problem, so I will be sticking with them. To be honest they have been really good, this was the only minor issue and I think it was just a simple misunderstanding rather than bad service. Thanks Again.

Bit of a drastic measure to leave accountants just because they won't photocopy your receipts for you ?!

[russell]

Just an update, I want to say that Alan and Nixon Williams provided a really quick response and sorted out the problem, so I will be sticking with them. To be honest they have been really good, this was the only minor issue and I think it was just a simple misunderstanding rather than bad service. Thanks Again.

[Support Monkey]

I scan everything in now and email the lot, all this posting stuff, "its so last year".

[russell]

If you can PM me or email me directly (alanatnixonwilliams.com) I will look into this and advise further.

From what you state there has been soem misunderstanding, some clients sent in dozens of train tickets and what we normally do is copy them and return for the client to retain. We also advise that in future for the client to retain the tickets and just state on the expense form that you have retained the receipts etc.

If this is not the case let me know.

Alan

Thanks Alan,

I have forwarded you the email thread.

[Nixon Williams]

My accoutant told me to send receipts for anything I used to pay for out of my business account, which I did. They emailed me saying the have returned them asking if I could photocopy each one individually and send them. I am sure they have access to a photocopier and this should be part of the service, as they do little else for the monthly fee.

Any suggestions for better accountants who aren't afraid of a bit of paperwork?

I am currently with Nixon Williams btw.

If you can PM me or email me directly (alanatnixonwilliams.com) I will look into this and advise further.

From what you state there has been some misunderstanding, some clients sent in dozens of train tickets and what we normally do is copy them and return for the client to retain. We also advise that in future for the client to retain the tickets and just state on the expense form that you have retained the receipts etc.

If this is not the case let me know.

Alan

[yorkshireman]

My accoutant told me to send receipts for anything I used to pay for out of my business account, which I did. They emailed me saying the have returned them asking if I could photocopy each one individually and send them. I am sure they have access to a photocopier and this should be part of the service, as they do little else for the monthly fee.

Any suggestions for better accountants who aren't afraid of a bit of paperwork?

I am currently with Nixon Williams btw.

I switched accountants rather than mess around sending receipts in the post. At Intouch Accounting I just key the details into their web portal and they only ask for documents by (very rare) exception.

[russell]

My accoutant told me to send receipts for anything I used to pay for out of my business account, which I did. They emailed me saying the have returned them asking if I could photocopy each one individually and send them. I am sure they have access to a photocopier and this should be part of the service, as they do little else for the monthly fee.

Any suggestions for better accountants who aren't afraid of a bit of paperwork?

I am currently with Nixon Williams btw.

Update: See my post below, was a misunderstand and I am very happy with their service as they promptly sorted out the minor issue.