Reply to: Hotel and Travel Expenses

[pookgai]

Hector the taxman

The poor soul is retired now, but he still keeps tabs on us........

haha! ah, guess I may as well kill my questions then. booring. understood. over and out.

[Mr.Whippy]

Who is Hector? :S

Hector the taxman

The poor soul is retired now, but he still keeps tabs on us........

[pookgai]

I doubt the majority of people here do this kind of thing and I doubt even more that you'll get someone stupid enough (except maybe Kandr) to openly admit to this on an open forum where Hector has been rumoured to read.....

Who is Hector? :S

[SueEllen]

Cheers all. I knew that entertainment isn't tax deductible, but I didn't think it would be seen as that - e.g. if it was a training course, you would claim for the cost of the training and the cost of travelling to and accomodation for the duration. So in the same vein, this business meeting would be an internally ran meeting where we would need accomodation and expensed meals as we aren't at the main office. Plus the business meeting would be purely that rather than a team building away day type affair.

I agree though, it does stink!! Ive met some contractors who claim this and just want to see whether this is the general majority practice of people on this forum - any one care to raise their hand first that they do this?

Believe it or not in some companies a few managers actually pay for a round of drinks, bring in nibbles i.e. cakes or in rare cases vouchers for their team as moral boasters out of their own pockets. Their company doesn't reimburse them and neither does the tax man and most importantly they don't ask for it.

If your team is so down in the dumps then may be you need to change your management style i.e. treat them better which includes dipping into your own personal pocket. It's amazing how showing people that they are appreciated and trusted in small ways does for staff moral.

[Mr.Whippy]

want to see whether this is the general majority practice of people on this forum - any one care to raise their hand first that they do this?

I doubt the majority of people here do this kind of thing and I doubt even more that you'll get someone stupid enough (except maybe Kandr) to openly admit to this on an open forum where Hector has been rumoured to read.....

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Cheers all. I knew that entertainment isn't tax deductible, but I didn't think it would be seen as that - e.g. if it was a training course, you would claim for the cost of the training and the cost of travelling to and accomodation for the duration. So in the same vein, this business meeting would be an internally ran meeting where we would need accomodation and expensed meals as we aren't at the main office. Plus the business meeting would be purely that rather than a team building away day type affair.

I agree though, it does stink!! Ive met some contractors who claim this and just want to see whether this is the general majority practice of people on this forum - any one care to raise their hand first that they do this?

It's not a training course - it's a jolly! The moral boosting exercises could be undertaken just as well in the main office; the travel and accommodation is an unnecessary cost. No-one with an ounce of sense would do what you suggested.

[pookgai]

1. You can't do it that way because it stinks

2. You have a certain tax exemption every year that totals £150 per head in which you can hold parties however you need to hold them every year. Most people use them for the Christmas party but you are allowed to say have a Christmas party and a summer bbq if the total comes up to £150 per employee per year. HM Revenue & Customs: Social functions for employees, including annual parties
and EIM21690 - Particular benefits: annual parties and other social functions

3. Business entertainment is allowed as an expense but you don't get any tax relief or a tax exemption on it so it's not worth doing it unless it is really business entertainment.

Cheers all. I knew that entertainment isn't tax deductible, but I didn't think it would be seen as that - e.g. if it was a training course, you would claim for the cost of the training and the cost of travelling to and accomodation for the duration. So in the same vein, this business meeting would be an internally ran meeting where we would need accomodation and expensed meals as we aren't at the main office. Plus the business meeting would be purely that rather than a team building away day type affair.

I agree though, it does stink!! Ive met some contractors who claim this and just want to see whether this is the general majority practice of people on this forum - any one care to raise their hand first that they do this?

[SueEllen]

Here's another related question - I find my employees and other directors in my company are losing morale and focus, so am thinking about holding a number of business meetings to get to the bottom of it.

I am planning to hold these sessions in restaurants, and perhaps some long weekends inland...if i put in expense claims to conduct these morale boosting/employee fact finding business meetings, how do I prove to HMRC that they aren't bogus, and remove suspicion that they might think its..oh, i don't know...just me going to a restaurant/holiday with my wife.

1. You can't do it that way because it stinks

2. You have a certain tax exemption every year that totals £150 per head in which you can hold parties however you need to hold them every year. Most people use them for the Christmas party but you are allowed to say have a Christmas party and a summer bbq if the total comes up to £150 per employee per year. HM Revenue & Customs: Social functions for employees, including annual parties
and EIM21690 - Particular benefits: annual parties and other social functions

3. Business entertainment is allowed as an expense but you don't get any tax relief or a tax exemption on it so it's not worth doing it unless it is really business entertainment.

[Wanderer]

I am planning to hold these sessions in restaurants, and perhaps some long weekends inland...if i put in expense claims to conduct these morale boosting/employee fact finding business meetings, how do I prove to HMRC that they aren't bogus, and remove suspicion that they might think its..oh, i don't know...just me going to a restaurant/holiday with my wife.

I think you can do it but there are special rules for entertaining and you're not allowed to offset these expenses against tax so not much point in doing it unless it's a genuine business entertainment. Otherwise everyone would be ripping it.

[BA to the Stars]

Thanks for the advice guys - all good info to absorb.

Here's another related question - I find my employees and other directors in my company are losing morale and focus, so am thinking about holding a number of business meetings to get to the bottom of it.

I am planning to hold these sessions in restaurants, and perhaps some long weekends inland...if i put in expense claims to conduct these morale boosting/employee fact finding business meetings, how do I prove to HMRC that they aren't bogus, and remove suspicion that they might think its..oh, i don't know...just me going to a restaurant/holiday with my wife.

I bet HMRC have never heard that one before! Unless you can provide concrete evidence - don't do it - Hector assumes that you are guilty until proven innocent.

If you are found out, you can bet he will take an interest in all tax affairs past and present.

[Mr.Whippy]

all good info to absorb.

Which you clearly haven't

[pookgai]

Thanks for the advice guys - all good info to absorb.

Here's another related question - I find my employees and other directors in my company are losing morale and focus, so am thinking about holding a number of business meetings to get to the bottom of it.

I am planning to hold these sessions in restaurants, and perhaps some long weekends inland...if i put in expense claims to conduct these morale boosting/employee fact finding business meetings, how do I prove to HMRC that they aren't bogus, and remove suspicion that they might think its..oh, i don't know...just me going to a restaurant/holiday with my wife.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

If you try to claim expenses for costs that you have not incurred and/or are not purely for business purposes you are knowingly defrauding HMR&C which means that, should you get caught, they will be unlikely to offer much sympathy

[gingerjedi]

Ahh, a comedian!!

Good call on the emails...how about if you went cold calling/visiting for prospective business..and had no evidence...as I might do in the future ..honest..

You can claim whatever you like as long as you are prepared to deal with the consequences, there's little point in asking for approval here as HMRC don't care for our opinions on what's allowable.

Obviously the more you stick your head out the more likely it is you're going to get shot, you can fabricate evidence but how big a grave do you want to dig?

Some things are worth risking like avoiding a parking fee, others carry a much greater risk for little reward.

[SueEllen]

Good points. I retract my suggestion that this would be easy to get out of.

Problem is if you did it once then it's unlikely you would be caught.

However all these people are greedy and thought that cos they got away with it once or for a few months they can do it for ever and not get caught.