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Previously on "Contractor/Agency rights to choosing an Umbrella Company"
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The debt transfer section of the MSC legislation can only be applied if the agency recommends or actively encourages workseekers to use a managed service company. Agencies are under no threat from the legislation provided that they ensure that any umbrella company that features on their PSL only makes payment via PAYE.
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Originally posted by PhilCBN View PostHowever, in Oct 2007 HMRC issued a statement clarifying the situation:
"Provided that the Employment Business has not, since 6 April 2007, been directly or indirectly involved in the workseeker obtaining the company, then the Employment Business will not be liable for any PAYE or National Insurance debt under the transfer of debt provision should it subsequently transpire that the workseeker’s company is a Managed Service Company."
HMRC are effectively saying that the agency should not have any involvement in the worker's choice of intermediary. Therefore by restricting your choice of umbrella company, your agency has opened itself up to the MSC transfer of debt provisions. If you educate your agency about this, you may find their stance changes. The following link may be of use:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employment-st..._companies.htm
As previously stated though, most agencies have no problem with people using their own companies.
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Originally posted by howardheffer View PostIncidentally I have now spoken to the agency and they have indeed refused to go with any umbrella apart from their 4 preferred umbrellas.
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Most agencies have a preferred supplier arrangement because they are not prepared to undergo due diligence on every new umbrella company that they come across. Agencies are in the business of putting bums on seats and the more complicated the process, the higher their costs. A major UK agency previously saved £80k per annum implementing a PSL. PSLs can also represent an additional revenue stream for the agency if they are receiving a commission from the brollies for sending business their way.
The MSC legislation of 2007 contained provisions that allow HMRC to transfer the income tax & NICs liabilities of contractors who haven't paid enough tax to their scheme promoters and agencies, under certain circumstances. At this point the agencies tulip their pants at the prospect of potentially becoming liable for their contractors' tax bills overnight (!). As a consequence, most agencies picked 2 or 3 brollies that they were confident were compliant and invoked a strict PSL - and who could blame them.
However, in Oct 2007 HMRC issued a statement clarifying the situation:
"Provided that the Employment Business has not, since 6 April 2007, been directly or indirectly involved in the workseeker obtaining the company, then the Employment Business will not be liable for any PAYE or National Insurance debt under the transfer of debt provision should it subsequently transpire that the workseeker’s company is a Managed Service Company."
HMRC are effectively saying that the agency should not have any involvement in the worker's choice of intermediary. Therefore by restricting your choice of umbrella company, your agency has opened itself up to the MSC transfer of debt provisions. If you educate your agency about this, you may find their stance changes. The following link may be of use:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employment-st..._companies.htm
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Originally posted by Wanderer View Postthat's no excuse for an agency to shaft people.
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Originally posted by howardheffer View PostWell there is always an administration period to get these contracts up and running, and when you dont want to risk loosing the position altogether by 'refusing to start until the contract is drawn up' what can a new contractor like myself do.
You have EVERY RIGHT to have a written contract before you start and I can GUARANTEE you that if the client tells the agent to get your paperwork sorted out so you can start tomorrow, the agent will be off like a dog with a firework up it's bum to get it sorted. Contracts will be emailed, signed, scanned and returned quick smart. Don't believe this BS about some "administration period". Many clients won't even allow you on site without a current contract.
And what are you going to do when the contract comes through in 2 week's time and it's at 20% less than the rate you agreed? Woops, shafted again.
Originally posted by howardheffer View PostIncidentally I have now spoken to the agency and they have indeed refused to go with any umbrella apart from their 4 preferred umbrellas.
Originally posted by howardheffer View PostI feel rather hard done by as the companies they prefer are some of the most expensive on the market.
Oh well, we live and learn don't we. My advice is to take it on the chin, put it down to experience and get on with the contract. We were all noobies once, but that's no excuse for an agency to shaft people.
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Originally posted by howardheffer View PostWell there is always an administration period to get these contracts up and running, and when you dont want to risk loosing the position altogether by 'refusing to start until the contract is drawn up' what can a new contractor like myself do.
You are now in a position where you are paying a company to provide a service that they can't, and you need to untangle that.
Originally posted by howardheffer View PostIncidentally I have now spoken to the agency and they have indeed refused to go with any umbrella apart from their 4 preferred umbrellas.
Originally posted by howardheffer View PostI feel rather hard done by as the companies they prefer are some of the most expensive on the market.
Originally posted by howardheffer View Postbut according to the National Pay and work rights helpline, there is no ledgislation that stops and agency from limiting the contractors choice, so looks like the law is on their side
Stop thinking like an employee, start thinking like a contractor. Failing that, go back to permiedom.
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Originally posted by Wanderer View Post
Uhhh, are you working without a signed contract? Don't do that. Seriously, it will just cause you a load of grief and you have very little bargining power in this situation. ALWAYS agree a contract BEFORE you start working on the client site.
Incidentally I have now spoken to the agency and they have indeed refused to go with any umbrella apart from their 4 preferred umbrellas.
I feel rather hard done by as the companies they prefer are some of the most expensive on the market. but according to the National Pay and work rights helpline, there is no ledgislation that stops and agency from limiting the contractors choice, so looks like the law is on their side
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Welcome!
Originally posted by howardheffer View PostSurely if the umbrella company in question is fully compliant with HMRC then the agency should not be able to dictate!?
Originally posted by howardheffer View PostI started a new contract 5 days ago (The contract hasn't been finalised yet by the agency)
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Your post is concise and clear, unfortunately the answer is clear too.
As Wikir Man said the agency is within its rights to refuse to do business with any company, while they almost never refuse to deal with a MyCo Ltd it's not that rare for an agency to refuse to deal with some Umbrellas. It's especially common for them to refuse to do business with umbrellas that operate esoteric tax planning schemes.
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Fact 1: You have the right to choose who you want to work through.
Fact 2: A business has the right to choose who they do business with.
If the agency does not want to do business with the company that you work for, then you either need to (a) move companies; (b) move agencies; (c) convince them to work together.
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Contractor/Agency rights to choosing an Umbrella Company
Hi,
This is my first post on this forum as I did not know a better place to find advice!
My question is - what rights do the agency have to tell contractors which umbrella they can and cannot use - and what rights do contractors have to choose??? Surely if the umbrella company in question is fully compliant with HMRC then the agency should not be able to dictate!?
Thanks for the adviceTags: None
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