HMRC pulling a fast one (allegedly)

[BolshieBastard]

I'm in a bit of a Catch22 as I potentially do wish to appeal a HMRC decision but need this letter to do so.

I have only been given until the 15 March to lodge my appeal and I do not envisage receiving the letter from HMRC and discussing it with my accountant before then.

As such, can I lodge a 'generic' appeal now without the HMRC letter, which contains figures I need to work from to investigate their claim, or do I need their letter to do so?

My other concern is if I kick up too much of a fuss, it might make me a target for investigation.

AFAIA you can lodge an appeal stating the broad reasons why you wish to do so. You could add that you are in the process of obtaining further information to support your position but due to the fact that HMRC's letters have not been received timeously, you will provide this other information later.

Remember though Im not a lawyer.

As far as making yourself a target for HMRC, well, I think the way to address that is all of us already are.

[Jeebo72]

My other concern is if I kick up too much of a fuss, it might make me a target for investigation.

Same as before, this is exactly what they want.

[Clippy]

Should you need to appeal any HMRC decision regarding your problem, you should make a detailed note of this including the date they said they sent the letter(s), your request for the second letter and the fact they wouldnt extend the period for you to response.

These are material facts which will support any appeal. The interest of natural justice demands that you be informed of any action and that you have sufficient time to respond.

If you can clearly support your position that the original letter wasnt received \ was unduely delayed and, the second letter sent by HMRC was similarly delayed, then it is not reasonable you havent been given time to consider the information, gather the info required and respond.

I'm in a bit of a Catch22 as I potentially do wish to appeal a HMRC decision but need this letter to do so.

I have only been given until the 15 March to lodge my appeal and I do not envisage receiving the letter from HMRC and discussing it with my accountant before then.

As such, can I lodge a 'generic' appeal now without the HMRC letter, which contains figures I need to work from to investigate their claim, or do I need their letter to do so?

My other concern is if I kick up too much of a fuss, it might make me a target for investigation.

[Jeebo72]

A word from the wise. And take note of what bolshie just said, but this will go on and on and on. You need to fight it all the way, and if you're in the right you'll win. Deadlines will be missed, fines will be issued, threatening letters will become more and more severe, and fines will grow and grow, and you'll go round in circles, but eventually if you are tenacious enough you'll win. Out of principle i fought out over a measly £780 (because it was completely their mistake) and the communications I recieved where a discrace and some people might have got well stressed.

They're typical public service wasters spending your hard earned on their water tight gauranteed no matter how inept they are pensions. Remember that, always.

[BolshieBastard]

Just spoke to HMRC and am fcking fuming now.

Still haven't received a letter from them which they claim was sent to me on the 21 February so asked for another copy which they reluctantly agreed to post to me.

However, when I asked for a few more weeks to respond to the query that the letter relates to was refused because I had been given enough time - since the 21 February!!! The fact that I haven't received the letter, apparently, is irrelevant - so is the fact that I have pro-actively chased on 2 occasions.

When I asked to speak to a manger, lo and behold, they are all in meetings and some of them only work a half day.

Should you need to appeal any HMRC decision regarding your problem, you should make a detailed note of this including the date they said they sent the letter(s), your request for the second letter and the fact they wouldnt extend the period for you to response.

These are material facts which will support any appeal. The interest of natural justice demands that you be informed of any action and that you have sufficient time to respond.

If you can clearly support your position that the original letter wasnt received \ was unduely delayed and, the second letter sent by HMRC was similarly delayed, then it is not reasonable you havent been given time to consider the information, gather the info required and respond.

[Clippy]

Just spoke to HMRC and am fcking fuming now.

Still haven't received a letter from them which they claim was sent to me on the 21 February so asked for another copy which they reluctantly agreed to post to me.

However, when I asked for a few more weeks to respond to the query that the letter relates to was refused because I had been given enough time - since the 21 February!!! The fact that I haven't received the letter, apparently, is irrelevant - so is the fact that I have pro-actively chased on 2 occasions.

When I asked to speak to a manger, lo and behold, they are all in meetings and some of them only work a half day.

[BolshieBastard]

Thanks Bolshie. Thought as much. They really are cheeky barstewards

BTW, Im not an HMRC employee! However, I know someone who does work in that part of the organisation.

[Torran]

HMRC letters are deliberately held within their IT system for at least 12 working days. They are then enveloped up with any leaflets ina machine called a Kern in line mailer. Its a standard machine in civil service Departments.

The Kern machines can 'pack' over 120 letters a minute. Once enveloped, letters await collection to be delivered to the sorting office. Once in the postal system, they take a few days to deliver.

Its bulltulip for HMRC to say 3 week delays are down to the post system.

Thanks Bolshie. Thought as much. They really are cheeky barstewards

[BolshieBastard]

Anyone else notice that the letters from HMRC arrive nearly always 3 weeks past the date on the letter?

I asked the lass on the helpline today why this was the case (especially as you only have 30 days to act from the date on the letter if you wish to appeal).

Her response "oh its the post"

I told her this was cock and bull and that the HMRC letters are always the same and no one else's.

She apologised on no ones behalf really and didn't mention the post again.

I know a small amount about how the mailing system works and there is no way this letter has been in the postal system for 3 weeks. In fact this letter has been lucky to have seen the outside of an HMRC office before Monday.

I wonder if the post office are aware that HMRC are officially (well their helpdesk) blaming them for the delay? .

Would any HMRC staff care to respond?

HMRC letters are deliberately held within their IT system for at least 12 working days. They are then enveloped up with any leaflets ina machine called a Kern in line mailer. Its a standard machine in civil service Departments.

The Kern machines can 'pack' over 120 letters a minute. Once enveloped, letters await collection to be delivered to the sorting office. Once in the postal system, they take a few days to deliver.

Its bulltulip for HMRC to say 3 week delays are down to the post system.

[Clippy]

Spoke to them on Monday regarding one thing and they mentioned something else whilst I was on the phone and advised me I had been sent a letter regarding it.

It's now Friday and no sign of this letter which I need to show to my accountant.

Any point in asking them to send out another copy?

[Torran]

They make everyhting difficult so that a) you just hopefully give up and pay b) it allows them to work about 4 hours a day.

Aint this the truth

[Jeebo72]

Have you ever tried to appeal anyway?

1. Mr Numbnuts is dealing with you and he's out of the office today, call back tomorrow. Can he call me back? No.
2. He's decided to take a half day so why don't you try tomorrow?
3. Finally: Ah yes, I've got a massive back log, so I don't know when I can deal with you. Can you give me a time scale? Phone me back next week.
4. He's on a half day, why don't you call back tomorrow.
5. Ah yes, I've got a massive back log, so I don't know when I can deal with you. But the deadline for fine is tomorrow. Sorry, I have a massive back log, and I'm on holiday tomorrow ...

Go back to 1

They make everyhting difficult so that a) you just hopefully give up and pay b) it allows them to work about 4 hours a day.

[Torran]

Anyone else notice that the letters from HMRC arrive nearly always 3 weeks past the date on the letter?

I asked the lass on the helpline today why this was the case (especially as you only have 30 days to act from the date on the letter if you wish to appeal).

Her response "oh its the post"

I told her this was cock and bull and that the HMRC letters are always the same and no one else's.

She apologised on no ones behalf really and didn't mention the post again.

I know a small amount about how the mailing system works and there is no way this letter has been in the postal system for 3 weeks. In fact this letter has been lucky to have seen the outside of an HMRC office before Monday.

I wonder if the post office are aware that HMRC are officially (well their helpdesk) blaming them for the delay? .

Would any HMRC staff care to respond?