Reply to: E101

[naijamanuk]

The E101 is applied for on behalf of the Employer for the Employee. If you work through your own Ltd Co, that (as ever) is your employer; and recognising that position has no IR35 implications.

The E101 proves to a client in another country that some entity (your Ltd Co) is actually paying NICs, so they will not be held responsible for paying your social contributions.

You, representing your Ltd Co, have to fill in 2 forms: a CA3821 for the Ltd Co, to get it approved to be able to apply for E101s for its employees; and a CA3822 for the employee.

You find them online, download PDF, fill in, and post. A CA3822 sent with the CA3821 will be processed at the same time (you don't have to wait for approval).

The CA3821 (for the Company) asks for the Company UTR (Universal Taxpayer Reference) and insists that this must be completed. In fact if your Ltd Co does not deal with the CIS scheme, it won't have a UTR and you leave that bit blank.

The CA3822 (for the employee) requires you to state the address in the other country where the work will be performed. If you don't fill that in, they will send the form back to you.

How do I know all this. Grrrr. Don't ask. It has just taken me over 2 months.

BTW, IMHO the government is out of order here: the E101 testifies that some company is paying your NICs. If that assertion is true, ISTM that you have a right to obtain an E101, without need to specify for example where if anywhere the work if any is to be done. But that's government: we work for them.

Thanks TF!!
Answered most of my questions fully!
A few others if you dont mind..
How long did it take for the certificate to arrive?
Also I only just opened my company - October 2012 and i have started working abroad since december. Will this be a problem?
Cheers

[balajo]

Because I returned to the UK within a reasonable timeframe so my tax affairs stayed totally and legally UK based.

It pays to check out tax affairs properly before going abroad.

And no I'm not telling you where I went as I have met some people on these forums and they don't know it's me.

Ok not sure why that makes a difference, not really interested in where you went either. I'm getting conflicting info wrt the S1 and its implication to unemployment if you use the s1 certificate so I just want to get some guidance on that.

[SueEllen]

Why didin't you need it?

Because I returned to the UK within a reasonable timeframe so my tax affairs stayed totally and legally UK based.

It pays to check out tax affairs properly before going abroad.

And no I'm not telling you where I went as I have met some people on these forums and they don't know it's me.

[balajo]

You can get one without reaching the minimum nic threshold.
I got one then found I didn't need it in the end.

Why didin't you need it? And for what country where you using it for?

[wurzel]

It took me months to get the certificate back from Newcastle.

So even if you had applied for it in time depending on the length of your contract you could be back in the UK before you get the certificate.

Edited to say: From the sounds of it they sound like a department where only a few people deal with the forms and if the particular person dealing with yours goes off sick/on maternity leave then your paperwork doesn't get dealt with.

I never actually got the E101. I filled in the form & submitted it but never got a reply. Fortunately, a photocopy of the application form was enough to keep the agency happy & they refrained from cancelling my contract.

[SueEllen]

Just found out why I'm needing to do this. The client co have no interest whatsoever in the E101, it's the frikkin agency that want it for some reason & it's them who will terminate if I don't provide it. Makes absolutely no sense at all. Agancy is Spring btw.

Your client is actually the agency not the end-client whose site you are working at.

And some agencies are more cautious than others with ensuring contractors have all the right paperwork even though some of these still can't do the passport/right to work in the UK checks they claim are for the UK Borders Agency correctly.

[SueEllen]

Thanks for responding, two more quick questions
When they issued it, did the issue it from the day you applied for it and for how long was it valid for?
And is it possible for them to backdate for prior periods?
Cheers

I applied before my contract was suppose to start. The certificate lasts from a year from my contract start date.

Apparently the certificates only last a year then you have to reapply for another year.

I would ring and talk to them to see if they can back date it. However you will need to have a proper excuse why you as the employer didn't send the form off before your employee (you) started their assignment abroad.

[balajo]

It took me months to get the certificate back from Newcastle.

So even if you had applied for it in time depending on the length of your contract you could be back in the UK before you get the certificate.

Thanks for responding, two more quick questions
When they issued it, did the issue it from the day you applied for it and for how long was it valid for?
And is it possible for them to backdate for prior periods?
Cheers

[SueEllen]

Unfortunately, my contract will be terminated in 5 days if I don't get it sorted out. My fault really, I knew it had to be done but completely forgot about it; been so busy sorting out client's website!

It took me months to get the certificate back from Newcastle.

So even if you had applied for it in time depending on the length of your contract you could be back in the UK before you get the certificate.

Edited to say: From the sounds of it they sound like a department where only a few people deal with the forms and if the particular person dealing with yours goes off sick/on maternity leave then your paperwork doesn't get dealt with.

[SueEllen]

Did you get the e101 issue despite not reaching the nic threshold?
I'm paying myself the minimum salary to avoid employee and employer nic and I want to get the e101 too. cheers

You can get one without reaching the minimum nic threshold.
I got one then found I didn't need it in the end.

[balajo]

E101 or s1

What if the contract isn't under IR35? I'm not paying any NICs then. Does that mean I won't get the E101 or is it just a formality?

Did you get the e101 issue despite not reaching the nic threshold?
I'm paying myself the minimum salary to avoid employee and employer nic and I want to get the e101 too. cheers

[TheFaQQer]

Just found out why I'm needing to do this. The client co have no interest whatsoever in the E101, it's the frikkin agency that want it for some reason & it's them who will terminate if I don't provide it. Makes absolutely no sense at all. Agancy is Spring btw.

Sounds like you need to get talking to the client - get your side of the story in first, as the last thing you want is the agency to terminate the contract and have them tell the client "oh, he just gave notice and disappeared - we're as disappointed as you are, but here's a ready-made replacement by the name of Bob..."

[Tarquin Farquhar]

What if the contract isn't under IR35? I'm not paying any NICs then. Does that mean I won't get the E101 or is it just a formality?

I don't know. The E101 proves continuing liability to UK NICs. Arguably you do have a continuing liability to pay UK NICs, you just haven't reached the threshold of qualifying income. OTOH it would be quite logical to refuse to give you a certificate of payment of UK NICs, because you are not paying them; leave it to the other jurisdiction (C.I.) to decide whether you are liable to pay there.

IMHO that would be quite a logical consequence of your choosing not to earn enough salary to pay NICs.

[wurzel]

Just found out why I'm needing to do this. The client co have no interest whatsoever in the E101, it's the frikkin agency that want it for some reason & it's them who will terminate if I don't provide it. Makes absolutely no sense at all. Agancy is Spring btw.

[wurzel]

If you are going through your Ltd Co, then you do it as I said above. All I can suggest is that you give them copies of the forms you send to HMRC; and perhaps a recent payslip to prove NICs paid. And talk to them.

What if the contract isn't under IR35? I'm not paying any NICs then. Does that mean I won't get the E101 or is it just a formality?