Reply to: Dutch Pal for Payroll

[it54321]

Duthcpal bankrupt

My husband has been using DutchPal for eight months. They have NEVER ONCE paid him on time. Sometimes they are up to a month late (and that's on top of the ridiculously long time it's "supposed" to take anyway). They've paid him the wrong amount, into the wrong account, in the wrong currency. They've given us bad information at every turn. They never answer their phones and take forever to return e-mails. I don't understand how they justify charging hundreds of Euros per month to take money from our employer with their left hand and pass it to us with their right hand and they still manage to screw it up on an epic scale every single time.

I was using Dutchpal in 2011, thankfully switched to another payroll company before they went bankrupt, however trying to work out whether they owed me some money still. Was anyone else using them when they went bankrupt, ie late 2011, early 2012?

[CiderEagle]

I worked for a year in the Netherlands and used a payroll company called Liberty Bishop, who were helpful, reasonable to deal with, not too pricey. Never had any issues with them. They helped with the 30% rule too (which is a real Godsend).

I've never heard of Dutch Pal - now that in itself doesn't mean they're no good (I am not setting myself up as any sort of expert here) but with all the research me and Mrs CiderEagle did when I went over in '09, I'm surprised the name doesn't ring a bell. Unless they're very new (ie post 2010).

Hope this helps.

[ExpatFamily]

AVOID Dutchpal!!!

My husband has been using DutchPal for eight months. They have NEVER ONCE paid him on time. Sometimes they are up to a month late (and that's on top of the ridiculously long time it's "supposed" to take anyway). They've paid him the wrong amount, into the wrong account, in the wrong currency. They've given us bad information at every turn. They never answer their phones and take forever to return e-mails. I don't understand how they justify charging hundreds of Euros per month to take money from our employer with their left hand and pass it to us with their right hand and they still manage to screw it up on an epic scale every single time.

[josepi90]

update.. my emails to conto former contacts have bounced, phone not answered and their sister company domain also unavailable.. suspect they've gone under.

[josepi90]

realise i don't have many posts here, but think its worth sharing the info below.

For the last contract i had in NL, i used a small company called "Conto Direct', based out of Cyprus. They were the cheapest that i could find that could handle NL payroll/taxes etc. In September 2010 was paying 165 euros p/m. Never had any major problems with them and the seemed to operate well and payed me on time.

I'm interviewing today for another job in NL, and was planning to use them again, but just checked the Conto website ,which is down for redesign/maintenance for some reason. Googles chached paged for the site shows the same maintenance page, so im unsure of the current status ( hence me finding this thread)

Not sure on how they handle the 30% ruling - mine expired after 10 years ages ago so dont have the benefit, but it was discussed when i first contacted them so presume its doable.

Ive emailed them to see if there still in business. Would use them again fwiw, but the lack of web presence concerns me a little.

cheers
joe

[withnail123]

Dutchpal

Dutchpal have recently said they are no longer able to pay salaries within five working days of receiving signed timesheets, despite still advertising this on their website.

Does anyone know any good alternatives? Looking for a company that pays promptly and charges sub 300 Euros (who isn't??) I struggle to understand how payroll companies in the Netherlands can justify charging fees that are so much higher than England?

Does anyone know whether I could revert mid contract to using my UK LTD company? I'm thinking not but thought I'd ask?

[Boo]

I have seen lots of posts here about ITECS but none about Dutch Pal. Has anyone used them?

I sat at the adjacent desk to a contractor who was using ITECS and my perception was that he was shafted witless. He spent the first 3 months living off of subs from his agent, believe it or not !

My advice : avoid.

Boo

[Stan B]

Anyways, how long does it takes to get a VAR declaration?

[techcelt]

nothing to choose

I've been working in the Netherlands for a couple of years and initially used on of the 'big' names for payroll and they were late paying me every month for the time I was with them.

I switched to DutchPal mainly because of the promised lower costs and prompter payments. The costs are slightly less than the other payroll companies but they still do not pay promptly - in the UK I would invoice Spring on a Friday and have the funds the following Tuesday.

From my own experiences all the payroll handling companies are pretty much like for like.

[Paddy]

Just use your own Uk Limited COmpany. i assume you have one. All you need to do is get a VAR declaration from the Belastingdienst (NL Inland Revenue). it is easy to get. i worked in the NL for a few years through a uk Limited co. No Problems. All the NL Payroll co's charge a fair bit. Also if you et the 30 percent ruling your dividends are not taxable in the netherlands. but if you don t have a co you are better to set up an irish one as the tax rate is much lower

I can second that. Did two and a halve years stint and another one of six months with the same; UK Ltd

[normalbloke]

Contracting in Netherlands

I will tell you what i did. I did it with a UK company called mitsulimited.co.uk but i think it would work just as well with a Irish company.

1. You have to register a eenmanzaak (1 person company) with the kamervankoophandel.nl. The cost is around 50 Euro's

2. This gives you a business number (so to speak). You then have to get in touch with the belastingdienst (dutch tax authority) and tell them you have an eenmanzaak and need to get a VAR verklaring (declaration). It is basically a piece of paper from the tax office that says they recognise you as self employed. You will have to show a copy to agency/client if they ask for it.

3. i applied for an got a 30% ruling. which means i am only taxed on my earnings and not any dividends or other gains

4. I got the limited company to send out all my invoices (the norm). I got them to split my pay between dividends and a self employed Income (note this is not a wage as youare self employed so no tax is taken out). this is the amount i have to declare to the belastingdienst and not the dividends.

5. the belastingdienst is a bit more anal than the Inland revenue so i made sure i earned a little more tan minimum wage so it wouldn t stand out so much. basically up to the 20% limit in the netherlands.

So overall i averaged around 20 percent after expenses. i do know people who didn't declare anything in the netherlands as they were only there 6 months. They took the risk and argued that under the 183 day rule they 't wouldn't have to pay any tax. which you could do but i didn't wantto risk it. For that i think you have to be paid a wage. i am not sure though.

Well tht is what i did anyway. A bit long winded but it was all pretty easy. Once you have a VAR they don t really seam to give you any bother.

hope it helps

I am currently contracting in Amsterdam - have been doing so since September.

My experiences are as follows:

Getting a VAR has become increasingly difficult. The Dutch Tax Office is now very reluctant to accept one man service companies as being self employed and ask for details of clients and multiple work streams, though I know some who have successfully blagged it. I opted to work through a payroll company. ITECS was recommended by my agency.

ITECS charge 330E per month for their services. They also charge 330E for obtaining your 30% ruling 'quickly'. They said it could take 3 months to get without their 'dispensation'... but I've heard other contractors getting it within 3 weeks for free with other payroll companies...

Their payment rules are as follows. You send your signed timesheet to them and they raise an invoice on your agency, usually the day after receipt. They will pay you only after cleared funds have arrived
from the agency. It then takes a day or two to end up in your (Dutch) bank account. So in my case with the 14 working day terms between agency and ITECS it took 25 days, which I think is too long these days.

ITECS will help you obtain your SOFI tax number (essential) and also arrange a meeting with the expat dept of a Dutch bank to get your Bank Account and debit card etc.

I found their Customer Service excellent (I had read horror stories about them in other countries). They answered emails promptly and always returned calls. Their charges are higher than competitors and also other payroll companies don't wait for agency payments, they will pay on timesheet receipt, which is much, much nicer for cash flow. DutchPal being an obvious example. A few UK contractors I work with, use DutchPal and say they are fine. That's why I'm trying to switch at next extension time. Nothing to do with ITECS service or lack of help.

I end up taking home about 70% of gross... not too different from a Ltd in UK.
Getting paid in Euros at the moment is also good.

[saigon triumph]

I will tell you what i did. I did it with a UK company called mitsulimited.co.uk but i think it would work just as well with a Irish company.

1. You have to register a eenmanzaak (1 person company) with the kamervankoophandel.nl. The cost is around 50 Euro's

2. This gives you a business number (so to speak). You then have to get in touch with the belastingdienst (dutch tax authority) and tell them you have an eenmanzaak and need to get a VAR verklaring (declaration). It is basically a piece of paper from the tax office that says they recognise you as self employed. You will have to show a copy to agency/client if they ask for it.

3. i applied for an got a 30% ruling. which means i am only taxed on my earnings and not any dividends or other gains

4. I got the limited company to send out all my invoices (the norm). I got them to split my pay between dividends and a self employed Income (note this is not a wage as youare self employed so no tax is taken out). this is the amount i have to declare to the belastingdienst and not the dividends.

5. the belastingdienst is a bit more anal than the Inland revenue so i made sure i earned a little more tan minimum wage so it wouldn t stand out so much. basically up to the 20% limit in the netherlands.

So overall i averaged around 20 percent after expenses. i do know people who didn't declare anything in the netherlands as they were only there 6 months. They took the risk and argued that under the 183 day rule they 't wouldn't have to pay any tax. which you could do but i didn't wantto risk it. For that i think you have to be paid a wage. i am not sure though.

Well tht is what i did anyway. A bit long winded but it was all pretty easy. Once you have a VAR they don t really seam to give you any bother.

hope it helps

[AlfredJPruffock]

Interesting - can anybody tell me a wee bit more about VAR in the Netherlands ?

Also - can a UK national - working in NL- use an Irish LTD for invoicing purposes ias previously suggested ?

Thanks for any advice ...

[Brussels Slumdog]

VAR declaration

Just use your own Uk Limited COmpany. i assume you have one. All you need to do is get a VAR declaration from the Belastingdienst (NL Inland Revenue). it is easy to get. i worked in the NL for a few years through a uk Limited co. No Problems. All the NL Payroll co's charge a fair bit. Also if you et the 30 percent ruling your dividends are not taxable in the netherlands. but if you don t have a co you are better to set up an irish one as the tax rate is much lower

I don't have a UK Limited Company as I am not currently UK resident but
will do some further reading on the concept of VAR declaration.

[saigon triumph]

use your own limited company

Just use your own Uk Limited COmpany. i assume you have one. All you need to do is get a VAR declaration from the Belastingdienst (NL Inland Revenue). it is easy to get. i worked in the NL for a few years through a uk Limited co. No Problems. All the NL Payroll co's charge a fair bit. Also if you et the 30 percent ruling your dividends are not taxable in the netherlands. but if you don t have a co you are better to set up an irish one as the tax rate is much lower