Getting Travel time paid for

[diesel]

Well compare all this to dealing with lawyers / solicitors and accountants - they may bill you for every conversation, time travelling etc etc. In fact they could potentially double bill as if they are travelling for one client and charging for that then they talk to another client on the phone in the meantime they could be billing 2 clients at once!

i am sure my solicitor did this to me!
Great idea...will see what work i have to do on the day!

So far my contact has confirmed that i am presenting on the day with NO mention of my discussion of travel hours - therfore as far as i see it its billable under my hours worked for this client!!!
thanks all for replies...

[MPwannadecentincome]

Well compare all this to dealing with lawyers / solicitors and accountants - they may bill you for every conversation, time travelling etc etc. In fact they could potentially double bill as if they are travelling for one client and charging for that then they talk to another client on the phone in the meantime they could be billing 2 clients at once!

[TheFaQQer]

Working on Train - will see what work i have at the time, as i am not keen on keeping my laptop with me on public transport. but otherwise its a good idea.

I am talking about travel time to venue where my client wants to me to do a presentation to their potential clients. So its not really being charged out to an client its from my client overheads, if you knwo what i mean.

Anyway i need to let my contact know last night, so i decided to accept to do this job, but kept quiet on hours front. He did say in his last email "he excepts time booking to be as normal". Normal to me is hours done for my client regardless as per my contract. If he objects then i will say i need to reconsider as its more than 1.5 days worth of hours which limits what i can do for my other client.

Sounds a fair try. Of course, working on the train only really works if you have a first class ticket - otherwise it's almost impossible with the plebs around you...

Best of luck getting at least some of it paid.

[diesel]

If you go by train, why not do some work for the client on the train? That way, you can still bill the time as you are working, and they can't complain about it because you are working.

I'd get it sorted one way or the other before you set out on the next trip, though - beforehand you can possibly be in a position of strength; afterwards you have no bargaining position.

Are you talking about travel time to get to client site, or is this travel to an additional location that is not the normal location for you to be working?

Working on Train - will see what work i have at the time, as i am not keen on keeping my laptop with me on public transport. but otherwise its a good idea.

I am talking about travel time to venue where my client wants to me to do a presentation to their potential clients. So its not really being charged out to an client its from my client overheads, if you knwo what i mean.

Anyway i need to let my contact know last night, so i decided to accept to do this job, but kept quiet on hours front. He did say in his last email "he excepts time booking to be as normal". Normal to me is hours done for my client regardless as per my contract. If he objects then i will say i need to reconsider as its more than 1.5 days worth of hours which limits what i can do for my other client.

[TykeMerc]

This is about being reasonable. When I travel on clients business I bill from the time I leave my office (home) to the time I get back less my normal travel time to/from their local office.

if there is are overnight stays then day start/end is arrival/departure from clients regional office. I apply the same principle for international travel, and yes it does mean that an overnight flight is chargeable time.

In short its time out of my life over and above the norm.

Exactly what I do too and for the same reasons.

If the client is charging you out at one of their client sites unless they are terminally stupid they will have built in some travel time contingency.

If you charge by the professional day it's simple enough to work out a fair amount of time to charge for the travelling time and perfectly reasonable to do so.

[TheFaQQer]

If you go by train, why not do some work for the client on the train? That way, you can still bill the time as you are working, and they can't complain about it because you are working.

I'd get it sorted one way or the other before you set out on the next trip, though - beforehand you can possibly be in a position of strength; afterwards you have no bargaining position.

Are you talking about travel time to get to client site, or is this travel to an additional location that is not the normal location for you to be working?

[YHB]

I know they have the money as this client charges my out 3x my paid rate!

Is that correct? then time to negotiate...

[Emigre]

This is about being reasonable. When I travel on clients business I bill from the time I leave my office (home) to the time I get back less my normal travel time to/from their local office.

if there is are overnight stays then day start/end is arrival/departure from clients regional office. I apply the same principle for international travel, and yes it does mean that an overnight flight is chargeable time.

In short its time out of my life over and above the norm.

[BoredBloke]

If you asked a local builder ton treck half way accross the country to do some work do you think they would travel incurring costs in terms of transport and time, and not bill for it. Neither should you. An option would be to allow you time off paid as way of compensation.

[diesel]

So perhaps he's preparing to tell you, AFTER the trip, "we discussed this before, I told you travel time wasn't billable. You went on this trip, ergo you implicitly agreed"

Perhaps you should rephrase your message to him: "I agree to travel on this trip, and as usual, travel time will be billed at my standard rate, as per contract."

Now the ball is in his court to react. If he doesn't object then he has agreed.

Thanks for replies.
Theres nothing in my contract to state travel time is billable or not as its not mentioned. just all work for client.

I like your idea but i see my client contact getting grumpy with me i i say that in an email.....nice bloke in letting me work from home etc., but he does not seem to grasp idea i am a contractor and only get paid for what i am doing for him. Some days i go with no pay if i have no work from him. He does not get rude or raise his voice, hes professional in that manner. I see if raise issue again with him again he wil def rock boat with me. Waiting for agent to call me back about another matter, before i reply today and confirm. Likely i will accept the trip and just book the hours within reason for the whole job - unless he puts spanners in the work beforehand.

Cant believe the chew on this other jobs i have been paid just for getting delayed in airports!

[Platypus]

i have given him the opportunity to clarify the travel time in an email twice, yet he does not answer the question.

So perhaps he's preparing to tell you, AFTER the trip, "we discussed this before, I told you travel time wasn't billable. You went on this trip, ergo you implicitly agreed"

Perhaps you should rephrase your message to him: "I agree to travel on this trip, and as usual, travel time will be billed at my standard rate, as per contract."

Now the ball is in his court to react. If he doesn't object then he has agreed.

[TheVoice]

My company sets a flate rate per half hour spent travelling & charges this out. If it turns out more time is spent travelling than doing the job, then you are billing the travel fees plus in our case the daily rate, so it takes the edge off trudging about. Clients so far are happy enough with this, including the multinational we've just completed where myself & another guy with my company were travelling 2 & a half hours each way alot of the time.

The way to look at it is, you wouldn't have to travel if it weren't for the client requesting it so you are providing it as a service & services to clients are chargable.

I wouldnt be tempted to travel without an agreement to pay in place, I guess it all depends whether you value your time or are prepared to do freebies.

[diesel]

You're a contractor, not an employee. What the company's staff is entitled to or practises doesn't come into it (even if they behave as if it does).

You simply take a decision as a business, whether you want to absorb the time of travel as a freebie or whether you do not wish to do so. Personally, I would not agree to give my time away, although I might not charge at the full rate.

I had a contract in Qatar earlier this year, and I negotiated flight days into the contract at half a day's rate.

However, it is wise to play it in a sensitive manner and try to understand the client's inhouse politics and constraints -- talk to the client and see if there's a way you can mitigate your loss without upsetting the barrel. Perhaps, as you suggested, by reporting some of the hours on other work days, or maybe by working less hours than you charge for.

It should always be above board.

Yes i agree need to be sensitive with matters, but dont like being held to ransom and expected to work for free, if you know what i mean. I only have 2 clients and work for each about 10-15hrs per week, if i lose a client there not much hope for another locally, but then it may be tricky for them to replace me.

I was thinking if i absorb the time as free or reduced rate (which i dont mind) to report more hours on other days. I only charge the client for the work i do, which some days means getting paid just for a few hours in the day as i dont have all the information i need (i am home worker most days) and thus not overcharging their clients or to their overheads.

I was thinking of agree but really dont want to confront client manager...as he has been good to me in work wise but very hard to get past. i have given him the opportunity to clarify the travel time in an email twice, yet he does not answer the question.

[alantan]

You're a contractor, not an employee. What the company's staff is entitled to or practises doesn't come into it (even if they behave as if it does).

You simply take a decision as a business, whether you want to absorb the time of travel as a freebie or whether you do not wish to do so. Personally, I would not agree to give my time away, although I might not charge at the full rate.

I had a contract in Qatar earlier this year, and I negotiated flight days into the contract at half a day's rate.

However, it is wise to play it in a sensitive manner and try to understand the client's inhouse politics and constraints -- talk to the client and see if there's a way you can mitigate your loss without upsetting the barrel. Perhaps, as you suggested, by reporting some of the hours on other work days, or maybe by working less hours than you charge for.

It should always be above board.

[diesel]

One of my clients does not like paying me travel time when i am travelling for company internal business i.e. to do a training course other side of country.

Last time i had to spend over 7 hours travelling plus meeting time, and client supervisor stated "it will look bad and against you if you book the full 15 hrsto the company overhead code, plus we dont get company value in sending you by the time we pay rail ticket and your fees" !.
I told him i understand where he is coming from but as a contractor its is the normal routine, as i dont get any of the benefits a staff members would get, such as paid TOIL. But he still did not get it, my agent was of no use except just said its my call. I know they have the money as this client charges my out 3x my paid rate!

Been asked to do some business away again for them. But this time found out from a staff member that they book all travel time to company overhead as part of their weekly hours. I have asked client supervisor twice by email that i will do the businss trip if travel time chargeable is agreed in advance (thats what he said last time)...anyway he had not replied to me email directly, except saying "did you have difficulties last time with me?".


My contract states nothing except hourly £ for all client work. If i do any work for client's clients i charge travel time and it is never questioned.

I see it i have the following options:
1. Agree to trip and dont mention travel time again, and just book all my hours on timsheet and see what happens.

2. tell him i can go and state again to agree travel time, but state i understand staff get it all booked to timesheet when they go on "away days".

3. Dont go to trip. (as its in November, i cant see what my workload is like with client to refuse on that basis).


Any suggestions, as i need to tel him tommorow as i kept him waiting for over a week already,
cheers.