Reply to: *False* Advertising: What can I do? Anyone help?

[Another Dodgy Agent]

Probably is true - when they are on a contract. When not on a contract, they are probably bustin' their guts trying to find something and then trying to work with agencies that would struggle to spell UML (let alone know what it is).

UML = Ultimately More Lagerbeer? - just kidding.

I can understand your frustration, the majority of agents are wazzock's, I guess you need to work out the good from the bad.

Long term agents should know stuff concerning the area they work in, i.e. mine is Transfer Agency/Fund Accounting and Custody - after 10 years of this I know exactly what TPA and Custody conversion involves and normally who in the market is currently available.

The majority of contractors that I know are friends of mine and we socialise regularly away from work. Contractors have become clients or recommend me to clients and thus this is my network and business.

[pauly]

Clearly you have never met any of my contractors. They tend to spend more time in the pub, but do occasionally take a break to do some work.

Probably is true - when they are on a contract. When not on a contract, they are probably bustin' their guts trying to find something and then trying to work with agencies that would struggle to spell UML (let alone know what it is).

[Another Dodgy Agent]

No. I am not new to this. Just disgusted that that the PM's, Analysts and other IT workers of this country (who do the hard work and develop the Intellectual Property within companies) are outnumbered 5:1 by sales people in body-shopping agencies trading them to make short term commissions.

No wonder big tech is created outside the UK.

We are strangled by agencies and should stand up to it.

Clearly you have never met any of my contractors. They tend to spend more time in the pub, but do occasionally take a break to do some work.

[pauly]

Are you new to this?

No. I am not new to this. Just disgusted that that the PM's, Analysts and other IT workers of this country (who do the hard work and develop the Intellectual Property within companies) are outnumbered 5:1 by sales people in body-shopping agencies trading them to make short term commissions.

No wonder big tech is created outside the UK.

We are strangled by agencies and should stand up to it.

[Another Dodgy Agent]

That doesn't make sense, if you work direct there's only one contract and nothing to dovetail... From an IR35 perspective the upper and lower contracts must agree or the upper contract can lead to the contract being deemed caught by IR35.

Apologies should have expanded, i.e. if you are a consultancy and have a standard contract and the client also has a contract then you would want to make sure that what you agree in terms of your obligations matches with the client's. This is what happens when an agent tries to multi-task!!

Right I am off to the pub (sorry, I meant client site).

[BolshieBastard]

That doesn't make sense, if you work direct there's only one contract and nothing to dovetail... From an IR35 perspective the upper and lower contracts must agree or the upper contract can lead to the contract being deemed caught by IR35.

Agreed. Following the HC decision on Dragonfly,I'd sayits imperative the contractor knows what's in the upper and lower contract ie its no good the lower contract having a sub clause if the upper contract fetters it.

[basshead]

Agent perspective here (for what it may be worth).

Your contract is between your Ltd Co and your agency. In turn the contract the agency has with the client is between the agency and the client. The only time you need to check contracts "dove tail" is if you are going direct to the client yourself.

That doesn't make sense, if you work direct there's only one contract and nothing to dovetail... From an IR35 perspective the upper and lower contracts must agree or the upper contract can lead to the contract being deemed caught by IR35.

[Another Dodgy Agent]

Agency contracts are a contractors business. If the agency sign you up for a year and only have a 3 month contract with the client - guess how long you are going to be there? We should make it our business to know the deal we are part of. It prevents the middlemen from taking advantage of their gatekeeper status. Also, the client should know how much I am being paid and how much the agency is pocketing - so the client does not get pissed off, cheap staff. Its an dependent ecosystem - not some nasty hierarchy.

Agent perspective here (for what it may be worth).

Your contract is between your Ltd Co and your agency. In turn the contract the agency has with the client is between the agency and the client. The only time you need to check contracts "dove tail" is if you are going direct to the client yourself.

I am guessing what happened originally regarding £400 per day on the spec, was that £400 per day figure was total charge to the client. (Embarrassingly I made this mistake in my first year doing recruitment but thankfully reached a compromise with the hiring manager, otherwise I would have had 0% commission). Consequently the agency have realised and now need to deduct their commission from the total charge hence £325 per day (which I feel to be quite high - a £75 daily deduction from the total works out as charge out = 18.75%, charge in is a whopping = 23.076% - to put this into context I normally charge between 10% and 12.5% to my clients, the lower figure dependent on volumes of business).

As the professional's on here have previously mentioned, you either go for it or walk away and find another gig.

[DiscoStu]

Agency contracts are a contractors business. If the agency sign you up for a year and only have a 3 month contract with the client - guess how long you are going to be there? We should make it our business to know the deal we are part of. It prevents the middlemen from taking advantage of their gatekeeper status. Also, the client should know how much I am being paid and how much the agency is pocketing - so the client does not get pissed off, cheap staff. Its an dependent ecosystem - not some nasty hierarchy.

Are you new to this?

[pauly]

Its an Ecoystem

The agreement between agency and client is none of your business.

If you dont like the contract then change it before you sign.

Usual restriction clause is a year - though I bet some on here have less.

IMO there is no such thing as a reasonable agency margin - it is just what rate you are happy with.

BTW - is this your first contract?

Agency contracts are a contractors business. If the agency sign you up for a year and only have a 3 month contract with the client - guess how long you are going to be there? We should make it our business to know the deal we are part of. It prevents the middlemen from taking advantage of their gatekeeper status. Also, the client should know how much I am being paid and how much the agency is pocketing - so the client does not get pissed off, cheap staff. Its an dependent ecosystem - not some nasty hierarchy.

[pauly]

Which agency??

Sorry, can't provide the agency details as working it through with them. After got it sorted, happy to provide this info.

[AZZIK]

Hi -

A quick posting.

Welcome your views...

I responded to an IT contract website advert.

The ad had an outline of the client company as well as a stipulated rate of 400 per day.

After contacting the agency and sending in a CV I got a word job spec document emailed back.

The name of the client, the role and the rate was confirmed of 400 per day on the document.

An interview date was being set up.

After the interview, the client came back to the agent and gave a thumbs up.

I was offered the role and got a contract sent through by the agent.

In the contract - the rate was 325! They had taken 75 pound off the advertised rate per day(!) - indicating budget cuts by the client.

I feel I have been *baited and switched*. They are possibly pocketing the difference.

I have tried contacting low level HR staff of the client company indirectly - but have been asked to work out contract details with the agency directly. The client still wishes to engage with the contract.


My Approach

I want the agency to open the books on this contract.

I want to review the terms of business to ensure that they are not pocketing the difference.

If they do not:

1) Can I threatened any legal implications of false advertising if they do not comply? I can show that I turned other roles down due to this higher rated role and therefore have a claim for losses due to false advertising

2) Can I threaten writing to the CEO and HR Director of the *client* company with evidence of the predatary recuritment practices. They want to get close to the client company and may blow it for them.

3) They are a memeber of the REC. I can threaten to contact the REC and ensure that they expelled due to misleading advertising - although I am unsure how effective this trade body is?

What would you do?

Welcome approaches and ideas as well as where you think I stand legally.


Thanks.

.

Which agency??

[expat]

I always get handcuff clauses changed to 6 months, and applying only to the contract, team, or project in question. I think that's reasonable for both parties, and no-one has ever demurred at changing it to that.

Basically I don't mind signing to say that I won't do this contract behind the agent's back; but I won't sign to say that he now owns all my contacts (past and future) with that company. The current contract is his, but there comes a time when the contacts that I make on the job are my own contacts. And the contacts that I made last year at the same company in a different country, certainly do not become his contacts now!

[VectraMan]

The restriction isn't unreasonable, but all of mine have been 6 months. But I'd never agree to a contract that didn't give me a get out.

All comes down to how much you want the job vs. how much they want you.

[BrilloPad]

Thanks for the feedback.

Have managed to have a chat with the owner of the agency. What a twit he is.

I understand how the rest of the company is so screwed up now.

They did say in the advert "Up to 400" - so I guess their butts are covered.

We are in a holding pattern at the moment as the client is on holiday at the moment.

Other problems now...

There are so many "restrictive convents" in the contract... can't work with the client company for 1 year without going through them - and have to pay them 12 weeks of contracting rates if this is breached, no notice period for me, can't leave - but they can fire the contractor if they are not happy...blah..blah.... all set up to benefit them.

Basically... I want to ensure my payment terms/terminations/rates etc... are reflective of the client terms they signed with the client. And, in the event of an extension, I don't work with them unless i want to.

Have asked for transparency with the clients contract to ensure it dovetails - and got told "no, not giving it to you" by the agent.

Pah, the arrogance of them.

Now they are asking for references everyday. Clearly either trying to extract contacts - or want to canvas a negative reference so they can go back to the client and say that I am a duff candidate - a better excuse then saying i won't sign due to them fudging the rates.

Questions:
----------

* Wonder what the average restriction clause period is, to prevent a contractor working with the client after a contract has ended - 1 year, 6 months? or less??

* Also, what is a reasonable agency rate nowadays? 20% - 25% - or less?


Insights always welcome.


.

The agreement between agency and client is none of your business.

If you dont like the contract then change it before you sign.

Usual restriction clause is a year - though I bet some on here have less.

IMO there is no such thing as a reasonable agency margin - it is just what rate you are happy with.

BTW - is this your first contract?