Reply to: What exactly am I paying my accountant for?

[chris79]

chris 79, I'm not saying it's rocket science, I guess when I was younger
with no plan B wife or kids and on lower contract rates I had that same approach, what i've found out is that my time now is better spent on focusing on higher quality things which will give me a better return.

Well ok I take your point, but from my own experience doing it for the last 18 or so months it really is just 10 mins a week.

It probably takes longer to mess about passing your accountant the stuff, or your umbrella company etc than it does to print your payslip, update your books, and transfer the money electronically. Saves you £x amount per year, puts you in FULL control, and gives you complete understanding of how your business is running.

Just my own perspective, I know everyone thinks differently on this one. Not trying to sell the concept to anyone here, it just surprises me that so many people don't consider the 'DIY' option either out of fear, ignorance, education, or get convinced by accountants that simple book keeping mistakes could result in bankruptcy, prison sentences, financial and professional ruin, etc.

[Archangel]

Can you get one of these afroementioned spreadsheets from HMRC or does anyone have a spare to hand?

My confusion is im just starting out so relying on HMRC on when to pay myself a dividend and how much! And how does PAYE work in this case.

My accountant doesnt seem to want to know now ive said i want to pay monthly - he just ignores my mails when i want to check what has been done to date so im just going to go it alone

Please excuse me if I seem rude, but WTF????

You seem unable to grasp the simple concepts of running a business, never mind the complicated ones!

HMRC will not do your accounts for you.
HMRC will not tell you when to pay dividends (that's up to a board of directors after looking at the company's current status)
PAYE "is decided" by the Board of Directors and REPORTED to HMRC, not the other way round!

Please please please just get another accountant.

[Owl]

Can you get one of these afroementioned spreadsheets from HMRC or does anyone have a spare to hand?

My confusion is im just starting out so relying on HMRC on when to pay myself a dividend and how much! And how does PAYE work in this case.

My accountant doesnt seem to want to know now ive said i want to pay monthly - he just ignores my mails when i want to check what has been done to date so im just going to go it alone

[Waldorf]

I am with Nixon Williams and am very happy with what I get in return.

As far as I can see, with a spreadsheet operation, you are doing all the work and I cannot see what your accountant can check, sure you enter the expenses etc, but if you have claimed for something that you shouldn't or not done it in the correct way, how will they know?

The answer is they won't and in a way they wash their hands of your affairs and let you take all the responsibility, I know it is our responsibility but I want to pay my accountant to ensure I stay on the straight and narrow.

So with all this, I feel I get a better service and I with the money I save, I get a few extra meals out each year!

[handyandy]

Im paying my accountant for piece of mind regarding my accounts.

Great - which piece of his mind did you get?

[VectraMan]

The FACT is with NW you simply send your bank statements, invoices and
expenses and they do everything including filling in the boxes on the all
the forms, I actually hope they don't grow too quickly as the service might
go downhill, so far it's been great.

So for something like VAT, you send them the form, they fill it out, send it back to you, you sign it, and send it off? I think I prefer my way of emailing SJD and them telling me what to write and only posting one letter.

And for invoices, you still need to raise and submit the invoices to the agent/client. The difference being you send a copy of that piece of paper to NW who keep a record for you, which is more work than just entering the value into a spreadsheet. If you wanted to look at your invoices, what do you do? No doubt need to make a phone call - again a spreadsheet is there in front of you in a second.

And with SJD, you still send off the bank statements at the end of the year which they then check against the spreadsheet. Although with the spreadsheet at hand you can see at any time what your bank balance should be and compare it with online banking everytime you make any payment, so you'd have to be pretty stupid not to spot a mistake. They fill in all the boxes for SA, corporation tax, PAYE forms for you as well.

Seems to me the difference is that with NW and others you're kept much more in the dark about the true state of your company, and you rely on the accountant to sort peices of paper for you, whereas SJD have developed a more efficient way of working that is better for you and them.

It's somewhat ironic to hear a bunch of IT contractors recommending paper and manual labour over technology, and choosing services based on price alone. Imagine if our clients did that?

And no, I don't get anything from SJD for this. Just trying to expose the truth.

[alantan]

In the market for a new accountant soon, so any recommendations to one that does the above would be appreciated!

I heartily recommend the one that I've been using - he met me twice for over an hour each time, and we planned the whole business strategy together. He gives a very personal tailored service, which you pay for. I feel that it's money well spent, but I admit that I could probably get away with a cheaper service. I suppose I might be saving a fair amount due to the advice I am getting, so perhaps it evens things out.

I would send you a PM with his details but have not posted enough yet to be authorised to do so. I believe you can send me an email, and I will gladly reply with them.

[portseven]

I also use SJD and by and large I'm quite happy..............

The only thing that I feel that I'm missing is advice on how I could potentially be managing things better. Not once do I recall being asked "have you considered doing 'x' to better manage the tax you're paying?" I'm not even talking about the "more creative approaches", but the basics such as registering for FRS for VAT.

I have previously used another popular contracting accountant (NW), and had great service apart from what you mention here. What I wanted is that bit of pro-active advice, hints and tips on doing things better, advice on Tax, how much divi vs salary etc. In the market for a new accountant soon, so any recommendations to one that does the above would be appreciated!

[Bright Spark]

chris 79, I'm not saying it's rocket science, I guess when I was younger
with no plan B wife or kids and on lower contract rates I had that same approach, what i've found out is that my time now is better spent on focusing on higher quality things which will give me a better return.

[chris79]

Unfortunately I did not get anything free from them, but all i can say is that
after 14years of contracting running 3 ltds and going through 2 accountancy firms and attempting to diy the accounts myself, it is refreshing to get this
kind of service, The 'others' in my experience always make you do the donkey work, and when i tried doing it myself i was spending lots of time reading about laws and worrying about new legislation....

The FACT is with NW you simply send your bank statements, invoices and
expenses and they do everything including filling in the boxes on the all
the forms, I actually hope they don't grow too quickly as the service might
go downhill, so far it's been great.

Sounds great. I just do it all myself, piece of piss if you spend a day or so learning it takes me 10 mins a week max to print out a payslip, update my books, and transfer funds from business to personal.

Tax affairs just stick a calander entry in outlook to remind you when things are due, everything gets paid online. If you can buy goods from ebay, dixons, ebuyer, etc.. then you can pay your tax too, it's no different.

Far from rocket science.

Ofcourse some people prefer to just leave it all to someone else, that's up to them... there are plenty options, plenty of accountants, I guess it's a case of finding a solution suitable to YOU, and then being happy with what you are paying out and getting back for it.

[AZZIK]

I think you will find that we charge £70.50 per month! - this works out as £60+VAT per month.

Using a spreadsheet system is fine, although as this means less work for the accountant, this should be reflected in the fees that you pay.

Alan

Apologies my mistake, thanks Alan for correcting. I get charged 70 quid a month including Vat and have ahd no complaints so far with the service.

[Bright Spark]

Overly-convincing praise backed with unnecessary justification always makes me suspicious of why it has been written. Did you get a month free for posting it??

Unfortunately I did not get anything free from them, but all i can say is that
after 14years of contracting running 3 ltds and going through 2 accountancy firms and attempting to diy the accounts myself, it is refreshing to get this
kind of service, The 'others' in my experience always make you do the donkey work, and when i tried doing it myself i was spending lots of time reading about laws and worrying about new legislation....

The FACT is with NW you simply send your bank statements, invoices and
expenses and they do everything including filling in the boxes on the all
the forms, I actually hope they don't grow too quickly as the service might
go downhill, so far it's been great.

[alantan]

I went for a rather expensive solution, as I pay £141 per month to "Accountants for Contractors", but so far, my impression has been that it has been worth it. Their approach is that the reporting is not left to the end of the year, but rather they produce reports and file on an ongoing basis, which they claim to be an advantage if you are ever in the situation of a sudden audit.

I have received very personal service from one of the owners, and he has given me a lot of advice on how to structure things. I put my expenses and mileage into an online system, and their staff take care of everything, from incorporation, to setting up the bank account, and simply let me know how much to take, pay HMRC etc.

If things are slow for much longer, I will need to evaluate whether I need to cut costs and this might be one area where I need to axe, but as long as I am busy, the time saving and peace of mind that this has given are worth it. Just about.

Of course, I'll never really know unless something happens...

[Moscow Mule]

service costs for your new Audi \

seven year old

About the same as SJD for a year.

[chris79]

I must say i've been using nixon williams since april 2007 and it has been
a breath of fresh air, all i do is just send the invoices,vat form and anything
else and they just fill in everything for me, which is a million miles away from
the hassle I had with ias/giant and from trying to DIY the accounts.

If your spending more than 20 mins of your time a month on accounting then
your accountant is not worth it, 20mins is what it takes me to raise
an invoice and post a copy to NW, get back the paye and send to HMRC, declare divs, vat return, not to mention the money I saved by following their
advice to go for Fixed Rate Vat Scheme.....etc

Overly-convincing praise backed with unnecessary justification always makes me suspicious of why it has been written. Did you get a month free for posting it??