Reply to: Is it best to go self employed or umbrella - from a CSA point of view?

[psychocandy]

Yeah, Form C100 (oh we've filled out a few...), £200 to apply. Of course it's only £200 if you act as a litigant in person (we did), which not everyone is capable of. (I'm very much against using solicitors as most of them, despite their fees, are actually pretty useless, but I also realise that many people just couldn't do it on their own.)

(Apologies for posting three times in a row...should've done a multi-quote...)

Yeh thats the one. But he couldnt even be arsed to do that. Said £200 was too much to pay out.

[formant]

Is it best to go self employed or umbrella - from a CSA point of view?

Understand: there are good and bad mediation services though, it's an evolving profession. There are new procedures coming into play to try and deal with the unreasonable parties and either get them to the table or push the case back to court.

Thing is, if you can't have a normal conversation with your ex, neither mediation, nor family therapy are going to help. Yet in family courts it's somehow expected that you try either or both repeatedly. Sure it would be better to keep matters out of court, but unfortunately having at least one completely unreasonable party following a marital break-up is closer to being the norm than the exception. :-/

If you're lucky enough to be able to talk to your former partner in a constructive way, doing so in a formal setting like mediation can definitely help you sort some things out.

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

My other half and his ex tried mediation shortly after he left her. £100 per hour for someone to literally just sit there. Mediators don't get involved, which means that if your ex is a completely unreasonable psychopath or anything on that continuum, you might as well burn your money instead.

Three years later (quite recently) judge in ongoing residence proceedings (we make it to on average one three-day "final hearing" per year) suggested/ordered them to try family therapy instead. £35 for individual meetings, £65 for joint meetings. And you get a 'proper' psychologist/counsellor who will actually tell either party when they're being unhelpful/unreasonable/completely out of line. In our case, he had to kick the ex out and that was the end of this. That didn't make her look good in court thereafter.

After a few years we've won as much as we could have won with regards to residence of his daughters - they're with us most of of the time. But it wasn't easy, just cause he's the father, not the mother, and by that automatically worth less in the eyes of family law - despite having been the main caregiver throughout his girls' lives...

Anyway, if you're thinking about mediation, consider family therapy first/instead.

Understand: there are good and bad mediation services though, it's an evolving profession. There are new procedures coming into play to try and deal with the unreasonable parties and either get them to the table or push the case back to court.

[formant]

My own dear brother has got a really sickening attitude. Recently split up from his girlfriend - they have a one-year old girl. Says hes not 'looking after the baby' for her until she does x,y,z. WTF this is his kid!!!!

Hes also got two kids from a previous relationship. Mother admitedly is a bit of a nightmare and has done a bunk so he doesnt see them. I found out for him that he can apply to the courts for them to sort something out - £200 it costs or something like that. Can't afford it apparently.

Guy is a welder - earns in excess of £200 a day easily I would imagine. Trouble is a fair percentage of this gets pissed up against the wall....

Cant believe I'm related to him....

Yeah, Form C100 (oh we've filled out a few...), £200 to apply. Of course it's only £200 if you act as a litigant in person (we did), which not everyone is capable of. (I'm very much against using solicitors as most of them, despite their fees, are actually pretty useless, but I also realise that many people just couldn't do it on their own.)

(Apologies for posting three times in a row...should've done a multi-quote...)

[formant]

Not for me to take high moral ground but...

If people dont provide financially for the kids then who picks up the tab?

Tax credits and benefits come from us all through the tax system

Honestly, the CSA is the wrong way to go about it. What the CSA does is encourage women (yeah, it's usually women) to deprive their ex-partner of contact with his children, because any night spent with him reduces the money she gets. That's not in the children's interest at all. I'm sure most children would prefer time with their father to extra cash for their mother.

Also, more importantly, since 2010 child maintenance does not affect the benefits the parent with care gets. Basically, whether the dad pays or not - you/we are still "picking up the tab".

[formant]

Away from day to day work, I'm a unpaid trustee of a Family Mediation Service. Mediation is a court approved - in fact preferred - alternative to court action and, hopefully less expensive - it does depend on both parties being will to sit down and talk.

From this month, legal aid isn't available for family law in courts other than issues like domestic violence, but it is still available for mediation (may not affect the typical member of this forum, but maybe their spouses).

Try and give mediation a go.

My other half and his ex tried mediation shortly after he left her. £100 per hour for someone to literally just sit there. Mediators don't get involved, which means that if your ex is a completely unreasonable psychopath or anything on that continuum, you might as well burn your money instead.

Three years later (quite recently) judge in ongoing residence proceedings (we make it to on average one three-day "final hearing" per year) suggested/ordered them to try family therapy instead. £35 for individual meetings, £65 for joint meetings. And you get a 'proper' psychologist/counsellor who will actually tell either party when they're being unhelpful/unreasonable/completely out of line. In our case, he had to kick the ex out and that was the end of this. That didn't make her look good in court thereafter.

After a few years we've won as much as we could have won with regards to residence of his daughters - they're with us most of of the time. But it wasn't easy, just cause he's the father, not the mother, and by that automatically worth less in the eyes of family law - despite having been the main caregiver throughout his girls' lives...

Anyway, if you're thinking about mediation, consider family therapy first/instead.

[LandRover]

We all pay

Not for me to take high moral ground but...

If people dont provide financially for the kids then who picks up the tab?

Tax credits and benefits come from us all through the tax system

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

Good idea the withdrawal of legal aid for family law. I had a mate who got stung with this - his mrs could afford the lot because she didnt have to pay he had to pay himself. So she had unlimited legal resource - he was tied by cost. totally unfair situation.

Yep, and mediation is fixed fee / time limited, so even if the Mrs has legal aid its not unlimited.

[psychocandy]

Away from day to day work, I'm a unpaid trustee of a Family Mediation Service. Mediation is a court approved - in fact preferred - alternative to court action and, hopefully less expensive - it does depend on both parties being will to sit down and talk.

From this month, legal aid isn't available for family law in courts other than issues like domestic violence, but it is still available for mediation (may not affect the typical member of this forum, but maybe their spouses).

Try and give mediation a go.

Good idea the withdrawal of legal aid for family law. I had a mate who got stung with this - his mrs could afford the lot because she didnt have to pay he had to pay himself. So she had unlimited legal resource - he was tied by cost. totally unfair situation.

[psychocandy]

Thanks again for the responses!

Does anyone know of any 'how to' references to set up a Ltd company for IT contractors?

Brillopad - I am not going into details suffice it to say that I see my eldest as often as is possible (given the distance my cheating ex purposefully moved from me, her often unreasonable and constantly changing conditions for visits and funds permitting). My two youngest live with me. All three children are very well cared for and happy apart from not having me exclusively.

I resent being tarred with sweeping generalisations, especially when it comes to those relating with the CSA and am sorry to hear that your experience has cast a dim view on non-resident Fathers. I've never missed a maintenance payment and have 'shirked' nothing. I would kindly ask you not to imply otherwise in my case. If you wish to advertise your issues with men then please do it elsewhere - not all Mothers wear halos you know.

My intention is to try and improve the financial situation for my Family without (as SockPuppet so addequately put) it all being funnelled into my ex's shoe collection. Nobody loses out.



Hem

Good for you mate.

[psychocandy]

Do you see the children? If not, why not? Is so, How often do you see them?

As the former committee activist co-ordinator for f4j I have vast amounts of experience of the CSA - but I only give it to those who I am sure are not shirking their responsibilities.

It is my experience that 90% of men do not do the best for their children and approach divorce/seperation in entirely the wrong way. Most men get the kicking they deserve from family courts/CSA/SS etcetc.

It is the children I feel sorry for.

My own dear brother has got a really sickening attitude. Recently split up from his girlfriend - they have a one-year old girl. Says hes not 'looking after the baby' for her until she does x,y,z. WTF this is his kid!!!!

Hes also got two kids from a previous relationship. Mother admitedly is a bit of a nightmare and has done a bunk so he doesnt see them. I found out for him that he can apply to the courts for them to sort something out - £200 it costs or something like that. Can't afford it apparently.

Guy is a welder - earns in excess of £200 a day easily I would imagine. Trouble is a fair percentage of this gets pissed up against the wall....

Cant believe I'm related to him....

[psychocandy]

Found this on page 43:

http://www.csa.gov.uk/en/PDF/leaflets/new/CSL303.pdf

"Net weekly income
The amount of income (usually pay or salary)left after taking off
things like income tax,National Insurance and payments into a
pension scheme.Bonuses also count as pay or salary.We don ’t
normally count dividends paid to a director of a limited company,
unless the parent with care asks us to take account of them.
We count tax credits and any money the non-resident parent ..."

But surely the ex-wife or whatever is going to know you take dividends and ask the CSA to take account of anyway?

[tractor]

...

There was a thread on this a while ago to which many of us contributed experience.

Here

It's up to you how you manage the problem, there will always be people who disagree with your actions, I posted at length how I dealt with it. you are welcome to take or leave it as far as advice goes. Lots of advice in the thread and you will only know whether its good or bad once you try it

As far as mediation goes, given that the OP has already said the ex has moved as far away to make it difficult for them I doubt mediation is a likely solution in all honesty.

Hope it works out ok for you.

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

(which I think may have to be done through the Court?)

Away from day to day work, I'm a unpaid trustee of a Family Mediation Service. Mediation is a court approved - in fact preferred - alternative to court action and, hopefully less expensive - it does depend on both parties being will to sit down and talk.

From this month, legal aid isn't available for family law in courts other than issues like domestic violence, but it is still available for mediation (may not affect the typical member of this forum, but maybe their spouses).

Try and give mediation a go.

[Mojito]

The sh*tty end of the stick

Yup the CSA calculations are a blunt instrument and do not really accommodate situations such as yours. If you lived close enough (I have a 100-mile round trip a couple of times a week) it's ok, but 350 miles is a bugger. A few things you have to accept, no matter how unfair you may find them:
- you have to cover the cost and time of your contact journeys yourself, not deducted from maintenance
- you can't force your ex to share the journeys, only to facilitate contact by making your child available
- the enforcement of frustrating contract is - with a few high profile exceptions - laughable and can prove counter productive
- you have no say in how your ex spends the child maintenance, if it pays for the cleaner then c'est la vie
- you are not alone in your position

The CSA have a formula that works fine for salaried people but can be problematic for Ltd company owners as this thread shows. You HAVE to pay your 15% to your ex and on time, don't try to withhold payment or arbitrarily reduce - it will probably backfire.

I suggest you get a membership of Families need Fathers as you'll get a wealth of advice in both dealing with access problems and also with the CSA. It's not easy and I can see why (although not empathise with) frustrated Dads give up given the way the dice is loaded.

The situation you're in is temporary, so while yes you do have the dirty end of the sh*t stick, it will improve as it stabilises. When your daughter is old enough to realise and appreciate the effort you have put in to maintain your relationship with her, it suddenly becomes worthwhile.

Good luck fella!