Reply to: Oyster card receipts?

[dude69]

Final word on season tickets:

The employee is entitled to a deduction under s362 equal to the lesser of

the total cost of the individual business journeys undertaken with the travel card (if paid for singly), and
the cost of the travel card.
This ensures that the employee is not penalised simply because the employer has chosen to pay for his/her business travel in the most economical way.

In other words, it is ok, PROVIDING the season ticket is cheaper than the return journeys. This might not be the case in London. For instance, return Oyster fare Zone 6 -> 1 is £7. Based on 230 days, that's £1,610/year. Annual season ticket is £1,784. In that case (in fact for most simple tube return journeys single fares are cheaper than season tickets), it would be a benefit-in-kind of around £174/year, i.e. £1,784 benefit, minus actual cheapest cost of journeys taken
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/eim16065.htm

You obviously also cannot buy an annual season ticket if it would last longer the 2 year rule (e.g., if you buy one after 18 months at same location and beginning of a six-month contract ; or you can, but the tax deduction would only be based on the cheapest cost to provide the actual deductible period, typically monthly season tickets)

[dude69]

Really? This is the first I've heard of these being categorized as a BIK.

I have a spreadsheet daily journey log so I'm not concerned in terms of proof but as I don't live in London it'd be difficult to use my Oyster card or season ticket for anything other than business.

Hmm, you may be right. It says

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/nimmanual/nim02335.htm

If an employer :

buys a season ticket for an employee’s normal home to office journey, include the payment in gross pay for Class 1 NICs purposes.

---
But if it is a temporary work place (under 24 month rule), then it is allowable.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM32000.htm

I could see that if it is a temporary work place, but you have a season ticket, you still have access to the asset, for your own private use and have an unquestionable benefit of being able to travel to London at the weekend, but if you look at IR201:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/helpsheets/ir201.pdf

WHAT ARE VOUCHERS?
Vouchers are items, including tickets, stamps, passes and other
documents, you are able to exchange for money, goods or services
or use for travel, including for example:
• gift vouchers
• vouchers or stamps for money
• season tickets
• tokens used to get goods from machines.

...
You pay tax on the value of vouchers and credit cards. But there are
exceptions and these are explained overleaf.
...
You may be entitled to a deduction if you used a voucher or credit
card to pay for:
• expenses incurred in performing the duties of your job, or
• expenses of travelling to a temporary workplace you have to
attend to perform your duties, or
• an allowable professional fee or subscription.


So it looks like it is actually ok, PROVIDING travel is to a 'temporary workplace', which means you must be careful with the 24-month rule.

If the 24-month rule period has expired (and the rules on expiry are somewhat complex in terms of timing), then your best bet is an interest-free season ticket loan.

HMRC claim this as green travel,

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/green-transport/travel-plans.htm

but it appears to be just Brownite smoke and mirrors.

It says

"Employers can offer their employees a free or low-interest season ticket loan up to £5,000 per year. There is no tax or NICs to pay provided the full amount of the loan is repaid to the employer and total loans outstanding do not exceed £5,000 at any time"

The issue is, however, season ticket loans are non-qualifying, as per http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM26142.htm

So actually it's just a load of bullocks, a season ticket loan is no different from a holiday loan, a beer and fags loan, or anything else, and there is no green exemption, merely encouragement by HMRC to use the existing small loans rules

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employers/ebi...l-loans-08.htm


Bottom line: Borrow £5k day 1 from the company, never exceed that, never repay it, and pay for travel including a season ticket, but only to a genuine 'temporary workplace'.

[gadgetman]

Really? This is the first I've heard of these being categorized as a BIK.

I have a spreadsheet daily journey log so I'm not concerned in terms of proof but as I don't live in London it'd be difficult to use my Oyster card or season ticket for anything other than business.

[dude69]

the auto-topup should probably be seen as a Benefit-in-kind, the same way a season ticket is, because there's no record or evidence of journeys actually taken, and that you are not using it for non-business purposes.

In the event of an investigation you would need a list of journeys showing only business journeys, or repayment of all personal journeys.

[Ardesco]

Easy to start. Buy some web space, take some dodgy piccies of yourself and your away!!

Then you just need to get various girls drunk, ask them to model for you and tell them how famous you'll make them and eventually you'll have a nice load of content. Password the site and make people buy a login job's a goodun.

HTH

now if you'd like to buy some webspace.... :

[gadgetman]

I wish

In the nineties before video over the net was common I worked on a contract involving video and we met with rep's from Real Media. All of their codec development was being driven by the Dutch porn industry...

[TheFaQQer]

To: mark@xxx.xxx

So you run a porn empire?

In a volatile market, only stable investment is porn!

[gadgetman]

Understand what you say but this is the email I got:

-----Original Message-----
From: autoresponse@tfl.gov.uk [mailto:autoresponse@tfl.gov.uk]
Sent: 17 October 2007 02:47
To: mark@xxx.xxx
Subject: Your Oyster order is ready to be uploaded at your nominated station

The products you ordered through Oyster online are now ready to be uploaded onto your Oyster card as you walk through and touch your Oyster card on any ticket gate at:
Euston station.

To validate the cash balance or Travelcards you ordered through Oyster online to your Oyster card, simply touch your Oyster card on the yellow reader as you enter your nominated Tube station, and watch for the flashing green lights. This indicates that the validation has been successful. Your Oyster card is now ready to use. Please note, if you have bought a Travelcard, you will only be able to use it from the start date you have specified.
For more information visit tfl.gov.uk/oyster or call the Oyster Helpline on
0845 330 9876 (8am - 8pm daily).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

No mention of my credit (or debit card). I got a similar email at the time of the top up (the previous day) with identical instructions.

[rawly]

I don't trust their automated system. I set up a manual £50 top up online for the next day. I got email confirmation at 2am the following day that it was done and waiting for me at Euston underground. When I got to the tube gates it wouldn't let me in.

Had to queue and buy a ticket. I later spent an hour on the phone and half an hour at the tube trying to locate the missing top up.

It eventually was added on my way home. I wrote to Tfl for an explanation but they never replied. Seems like a pretty hopeless system if you can't rely on a top up actually being applied.

Since then I have done all top ups in person.

Please don't be put off! The Auto Top Up has worked flawlessly for me!

I suspect you may not have read the instructions regarding the 'first use' of the credit card you used! When it said it would be 'waiting at Euston' you have to swipe your Oyster card on the ticket machine in the station (not the gates) to verify you are the card holder, you then follow the instructions - which as I recall includes re-swiping the credit card in the machine. This is a one time event only when you first register your credit card against your Oyster account. After this, topping up manually on-line is then done immediately.

Hope I've explained that OK!

[gadgetman]

I don't trust their automated system. I set up a manual £50 top up online for the next day. I got email confirmation at 2am the following day that it was done and waiting for me at Euston underground. When I got to the tube gates it wouldn't let me in.

Had to queue and buy a ticket. I later spent an hour on the phone and half an hour at the tube trying to locate the missing top up.

It eventually was added on my way home. I wrote to Tfl for an explanation but they never replied. Seems like a pretty hopeless system if you can't rely on a top up actually being applied.

Since then I have done all top ups in person.

Set up an Auto Top-Up and you get an email verifying the date and amount debited, which you can then print out.

[TheFaQQer]

Sorry, sense of humour failure

I think I noticed a while back someone in the PCG forums has managed to get one.

If you meet the rules, then it's not hard, but it's up to your local office. Some are more willing to give them than others.

My accountant offered to help me get one (for £400 + VAT), but all I did was fill in a form and send it off. They asked for evidence of approvals processes etc. which I sent them, and they granted me one.

[gadgetman]

Sorry - it was a touch tongue in cheek.

I don't know of any other contractors who have one, apart from those through a brolly.

Sorry, sense of humour failure

I think I noticed a while back someone in the PCG forums has managed to get one.

[rawly]

I use a PAYG Oyster which I top up at a machine which doesn't give receipts.

I've checked online and my journey history shows a line item for each top up but I can't find anywhere to print off a receipt.

Is there a way to get something which I can use in my records or will the journey history do?

Set up an Auto Top-Up and you get an email verifying the date and amount debited, which you can then print out.

[TheFaQQer]

How difficult is it to get the dispensation? Any pointers where to start?

Sorry - it was a touch tongue in cheek.

If you have only one director of the company, then you can't get one (I think). You need to have a detailed policy for approving expenses and be able to detail the checks that you undertake to ensure that they are valid expenses, etc. etc.

Some accountants will "help" you get one - for a fee. But if you meet the rules, then it's a matter of just applying for one to your local tax office. Some tax offices are more willing to grant them than others - my company met all the rules and restrictions, has an expenses policy, an approval hierarchy, etc. etc. and so I got one. I don't know of any other contractors who have one, apart from those through a brolly.

[Ardesco]

How difficult is it to get the dispensation? Any pointers where to start?

As long as you can prove that you have spent the money it's fine. A recipt is valid proof, and so is a payment out of your Company Bank Account to the rozzers who run the Oyster scheme.

If you are really paranoid keep a log of all your journeys too.