Work Request Queues and IR35

[Denny]

And this is where my problem lies with IR35 contract reviews. The contract is used as a starting point and anyone contracting should understand enough to ensure the main points are in there. It's the working practices that are looked at in finer detail so I have never felt the need to pay for a contract review as a) I know the main points I need to have in the contract and b) I'm comfortable my working practices are outside IR35 and, oh yeah, I have the insurance as well. I get the impression that some posters here swear by them and I personally find it hard to see the value.

But hey - thats just me...

No it's not. It's me as well.

I do get mine reviewed, but there are some clients that do take the piss and agree to terms the EB discusses with them simply because they expect them not to be followed once the role is secured. Personally, I think the answer lies in ensuring that the upper contract is available for reviewing as well. You can bet your life that when the client expects to take the piss then the upper contract is unlikely to mirror the exact terms the contractor signed with the EB. Sometimes not even that is enough.

More than likely there will be reference to doing the work personally and that you are under the D&C of the client.

I took on a role recently and ditched it after three days because it was very clear that I was expected to behave more like a temp not a contractor. I had my own Project support allocated to tie my shoe laces and expected to inform the client when I was going on holiday, had full staff canteen and gym membership. Plus I got a nice welcome letter from the client saying how pleased that I had become a member of staff. When I said I was working at my home office (something agreed up front) as well as on site when I felt I needed to, they forgot to mention that I had to use some sort of on=site remote access code Ifrom my own computer so I could access the client desktop for my e-mails. It was clear they had no intention of ever calling me on my mobile or using my buisness e-mail addy. This is what the flexible home working staff did too. D&C from the site is bad enough but when it encroaches on my own business addy then this really is taking the piss. The last straw was when my little elves sorted out a flight for me and paid for it directly on their own account. I had made it abundantly clear that I wanted to book my own flights and that I was charging the EB my expenses with VAT added.

However, I did negotiate a good severance fee for wasted time and client breach of contract in exchange for full and final settlement. So 5K + VAT is not bad for 3 days actually work for the client. Still annoying though as the contract would have been worth in excess of 30K if I had stayed.

[ratewhore]

...you might be inside ir35 in practice. Unfortunately, this is very often the case with some ir35 compliant contracts...

And this is where my problem lies with IR35 contract reviews. The contract is used as a starting point and anyone contracting should understand enough to ensure the main points are in there. It's the working practices that are looked at in finer detail so I have never felt the need to pay for a contract review as a) I know the main points I need to have in the contract and b) I'm comfortable my working practices are outside IR35 and, oh yeah, I have the insurance as well. I get the impression that some posters here swear by them and I personally find it hard to see the value.

But hey - thats just me...

[Denny]

ha ha! They treat employees like s*** and have got such a bad name they cant get enough new employees!

Out of interest, how much do you worry about IR35? I know a lot of contractors simply rely on the contract, or just hope they can win any contest. I've only been contracting for about 9 months and the most reliable advice I've had has been far more cautoius than that.

Am I stressing too much? I know PGC win more cases than they lose.

Your intuition should inform you what your true commercial relationship is with the client. I have both direct and sourced work through EBs, but I have never, ever felt obliged to conform to anything with direct clients who make it abundantly clear to me that I can come and go as I please and put in the hours I want to. The difference is pretty obvious really.

If you are unsure, then talk it over with your client and state that you want a confirmation of working arrangements with them or clarity over your status according to the terms. Why not get a schedule of works drawn up that captivates the nature of your role as it currently stands. This could then allow you to do what the client wants but still gives you a sense that you are in overall control of the project based work you are assigned to.

If you feel that even this is a non goer and that you are likely to be terminated for turning down work or even suggesting such a thing, then you really have little option but to accept that you might be inside ir35 in practice. Unfortunately, this is very often the case with some ir35 compliant contracts which are largely the brainchild of the EB not the client. The client actually wants a temp not a contractor and as soon as you start to work to your terms in practice you find yourself falling out with the client who thinks you impertinent for wanting the freedom to actually work like a proper contractor should.

Good luck.

[MrRobin]

Absolutely, the whole not letting you use your own laptop in a non issue really. Anything that would challenge your self employment status on that basis would be moot as you can just use the information/IT security reasons Ardesco has described. Unless the dress code is a set uniform that permies wear then I can't see any problem with that either.

The D&C is around the work allocation - as said already if you can reasonably say "no sorry, I'm not doing that one, please send me something different" and are under your own control regarding technical aspects of your work, rather than being told to use such and such subroutines and this and that programming conventions then you should be alright.

IR35 is a concern to me, ofcourse, but I don't lose sleep over it. I make sure that before signing a contract I have it reviewed so i know what the IR35 status is (and then get it ammended if possible to be outside) and then I work to the rules in the contract.

[SueEllen]

Out of interest, how much do you worry about IR35? I know a lot of contractors simply rely on the contract, or just hope they can win any contest. I've only been contracting for about 9 months and the most reliable advice I've had has been far more cautoius than that.

.

Because I have direction and control.

I'm asked to do something not told to do it.

And if I believe it's in my company's interest that the employees should be at work during the hours that the client is open then they have to be.

[Ardesco]

I would personally say that using a machine they supply is hardly a proof that you are under direction and control.

I would not let some random person come and plug a machine into my network and start accessing my network resources because it would be a major risk. I don't know what is on thier machine and I have no control over the security mecanism's that it runs.

You would be hard pressed to find a sys admin anywhere who will readily agree to let people plug any old machine they want into his network.

Secondly as a professional contractor surely your company has an image to portray. I would suggest that the most professional image you company can put out would be one where you have a dress code, if it happens to match the dress code of the client company that is happy coincidence

[Fran]

That does reek of Direction & Control... Why have they hired the services of a contractor rather than employing a permie?

ha ha! They treat employees like s*** and have got such a bad name they cant get enough new employees!

Out of interest, how much do you worry about IR35? I know a lot of contractors simply rely on the contract, or just hope they can win any contest. I've only been contracting for about 9 months and the most reliable advice I've had has been far more cautoius than that.

Am I stressing too much? I know PGC win more cases than they lose.

[ratewhore]

Why have they hired the services of a contractor rather than employing a permie?

That's a fundamental question isn't it?

[MrRobin]

That does reek of Direction & Control... Why have they hired the services of a contractor rather than employing a permie?

[Fran]

Think the main issue would be integration. It doesn't look good if you do essentially the same job as an employee, particularly if you are a member of a team.

Another point I'm worried about, I am essentially treated the same as an employee, other than payment and contract terms you wouldn't see any difference between me and employees. I even have to conform to thier dress code and cant use my laptop.

Contractually I don't have to accept jobs, but if I ever refused a job I think it would cause trouble.

To be honest warning bells have been sounding since I started here. Ah well, it got me though december!

[Qdos Contractor]

I'm working on a contract for a large website. My contract specifies I am providing web development services.

The problem is I'm working from a work request queue where the team leader allocates me to a work request.

How does this sit with IR35, I have a very bad feeling about it, essentially I am simply bulking up the team.

The good news is I am on a weeks notice!

Think the main issue would be integration. It doesn't look good if you do essentially the same job as an employee, particularly if you are a member of a team.

[MrRobin]

Should be alright, so long as you have reasonable autonomy in how you carry out the development work and that you are under no contractual obligation to accept the work requests (and they are under no obligation to give you any).

[Fran]

I'm working on a contract for a large website. My contract specifies I am providing web development services.

The problem is I'm working from a work request queue where the team leader allocates me to a work request.

How does this sit with IR35, I have a very bad feeling about it, essentially I am simply bulking up the team.

The good news is I am on a weeks notice!