given a lift by a permie to a site

[VectraMan]

"Forced" doesn't sound good, but otherwise I don't see a big problem.

I'd charge for the time. I'm doing it tomorrow: I'm going to a different site that's closer to home for a meeting, then going to my normal site. I figure the time I arrive at the first site is the start of my day, and I'll count driving inbetween as also part of the day (but won't charge the client for any travelling expenses).

[TheFaQQer]

They accepted the fact that going with a permie in a "pool car" may raise some insurance / IR35 eyebrows. Pool car as a staff benefit etc. Plus it is restricting if I need to be on site for a couple of days but permie doesn't.

Created additional day rate for working at this specific site inclusive of expenses meaning no reciepts for lunch/dinner/accomodation and inclusive of travel time.

Everyone's a winner...! assuming it gets signed off!

Journey would be 250 direct or 80 to permies. (return)

Well done - here's hoping that they sign it off.

[beeker]

Its not clear how much extra travelling is actually incurred by going to the permie.

if your journey would otherwise be 200 miles, then I think they have made a reasonable request. If your journey would otherwsise be 100 miles then tellthem to stuff it.

How far are you actually going out of the way by this route?

They accepted the fact that going with a permie in a "pool car" may raise some insurance / IR35 eyebrows. Pool car as a staff benefit etc. Plus it is restricting if I need to be on site for a couple of days but permie doesn't.

Created additional day rate for working at this specific site inclusive of expenses meaning no reciepts for lunch/dinner/accomodation and inclusive of travel time.

Everyone's a winner...! assuming it gets signed off!

Journey would be 250 direct or 80 to permies. (return)

[robnjc]

Its not clear how much extra travelling is actually incurred by going to the permie.

if your journey would otherwise be 200 miles, then I think they have made a reasonable request. If your journey would otherwsise be 100 miles then tellthem to stuff it.

How far are you actually going out of the way by this route?

[r0bly0ns]

That makes sense, charging rate for travel time - do you charge for mileage too? or do you accept that is within your rate?

I'm taking on board some good pointers here, i'm just about to (hopefully) renew my first contract!

Yep, claim the expenses for mileage from my own Ltd, charge the client for travel time only.

However, I did agree this with the client before the first time they asked me to visit a site.

[beeker]

If I was charging for time, then I'd absorb the cost of the mileage (assuming it was worth my while).

I normally don't charge for time, though, unless it's massively outside what we agreed at the start. It's all part of a day to me.

So basically one or the other, if they want me at Site X - I get there myself and either charge mileage (reduced rate) or travel time at an hourly breakdown of day rate?

thanks for all the advice!

[TheFaQQer]

That makes sense, charging rate for travel time - do you charge for mileage too? or do you accept that is within your rate?

I'm taking on board some good pointers here, i'm just about to (hopefully) renew my first contract!

If I was charging for time, then I'd absorb the cost of the mileage (assuming it was worth my while).

I normally don't charge for time, though, unless it's massively outside what we agreed at the start. It's all part of a day to me.

[beeker]

If working at Site X was not part of your original contract then you are well within your rights to put this to them.

If out current client requires me to work at another site for a day, I just charge them normal hourly rate for all travel time, which they are happy with.

That makes sense, charging rate for travel time - do you charge for mileage too? or do you accept that is within your rate?

I'm taking on board some good pointers here, i'm just about to (hopefully) renew my first contract!

[r0bly0ns]

I'd like to charge them an increased rate for work at Site X as it includes a longer working day and lunch etc, and possible overnight stays. If they pay for any and all accomodation I can just invoice for an inflated day rate which will include mileage and subsistance? Keeps things simpler for them and me?!

If working at Site X was not part of your original contract then you are well within your rights to put this to them.

If out current client requires me to work at another site for a day, I just charge them normal hourly rate for all travel time, which they are happy with.

[beeker]

So they are paying you 40p a mile for the 50 miles to the employees house?

If you are working between sites, then for the difference of being away I would agree to charge expenses including accommodation (or they arrange it for you and pick up the tab).

I'd not be happy about being told how I got to their site or not - they agreed to pay expenses, they should pay them. Of course, you could offer to cut your mileage rate a bit to help the situation.

Your last para is what's annoying me. I think you are right in discussing a reduced mileage rate, and getting myself to/from sites.

I'd like to charge them an increased rate for work at Site X as it includes a longer working day and lunch etc, and possible overnight stays. If they pay for any and all accomodation I can just invoice for an inflated day rate which will include mileage and subsistance? Keeps things simpler for them and me?!

[TheFaQQer]

yep, @40p a mile back to them, they only pay their staff 20p a mile.....
300 mile return trip to the site I dont feel is within my dayrate!?

So they are paying you 40p a mile for the 50 miles to the employees house?

If you are working between sites, then for the difference of being away I would agree to charge expenses including accommodation (or they arrange it for you and pick up the tab).

I'd not be happy about being told how I got to their site or not - they agreed to pay expenses, they should pay them. Of course, you could offer to cut your mileage rate a bit to help the situation.

[r0bly0ns]

I can't see this being a problem myself (from an IR35 point of view).

If they are paying your travelling expenses it is in their interests to arrange travel for you.


Perfectly reasonable in my opinion.

[beeker]

It sounds like D&C to me, since they are essentially dictating when you are working (plus how you get there).

What difference does it make to them how you get to site - are you charging expenses?

yep, @40p a mile back to them, they only pay their staff 20p a mile.....
300 mile return trip to the site I dont feel is within my dayrate!?

[TheFaQQer]

It sounds like D&C to me, since they are essentially dictating when you are working (plus how you get there).

What difference does it make to them how you get to site - are you charging expenses?

[beeker]

I've searched the forum for any previous posts on this to no avail. I'm currently being forced to travel 50 miles to a permie's house for them to then use the company "pool car" to travel the further 150 miles to the site we are required to work on from time to time.

This will become more frequent soon and I just wonder if I should be travelling in this manner if I wish to stay outside IR35 - my theory being if they were to employ a tradesman to work on a site, they wouldn't give him a lift to the site!?

I have a contract negotiation very soon and I am thinking of clarifying this situation with either a higher rate or just travelling on my own. Work on this site requires an average day (including travel) of 10 hours - i'm a day rater!!

Would also appreciate anyone's advice on rates for working for say 2 weeks at a different site and being away from home overnight - do you charge a retainer for being away overnight as well as the hotel fee's etc...?!

really don't know how to approach this one!!

Thanks!!
Beeker.