Reply to: Umbrella Company Stats

[cailin maith]

Its in a load of threads..... have a look - yer man was mad as a brush to think he could get away with it!

[Moose423956]

Why is this b0ll0cks in this thread?

EDIT: It's gone now. Who was that guy?

[Moose423956]

Green Lantern I hear are very transparent and reliable but thats word of mouth.

I can vouch for that.

[Ardesco]

and will cost you a lot of money.

As will every umbrella

[Ardesco]

except that if you get caught you're going to pay....

If you are that worried you can pay people like QDOS for insurance that will cover the tax bill if you are caught, found to be inside IR35 and then forced to pay out tax.

I would suggest that every contractor has insurance for aspect investigations and IR35 investigations anyway as both are a real possibility and can cost a lost of money if you have to pay the costs yourself, however I have this covered with my PCG membership so i'm not worried.

Even if you factor in the cost of the above insurances it is still much cheaper to go LTD

[Bluebird]

There are no 100% guaranteed definates when it comes to IR35.

except that if you get caught you're going to pay....

[Ardesco]

How can you be 90% outside IR35? I thought you were either caught or not.

Because there is no definete in or out when it comes to IR35, only pointers. If you have enough pointers putting you outside you can be reasonably sure that IR won't come after you as they are more likely to go for somebody with less pointers, or just not bother as they don't think it is a case that is winnable.

If there was an official contract supplied by IR that placed you outside IR35 we wouldn't all have the problems we have now and IR35 would have been dead long ago. At the moment we just have professional opinions that place us probably outside, or probably inside IR35.

There are no 100% guaranteed definates when it comes to IR35.

[Moose423956]

Also I think you may be surprised at how easy it is to get your contract tweaked so that you are 90% outside IR35 now days.

How can you be 90% outside IR35? I thought you were either caught or not.

[Ardesco]

evening! yeah, i ran a Ltd. the first time i contracted but closed it after only 4 months to move house (a permie job was all that was on offer).

tbh, i detested the extra hassle the Ltd. created and i'm still left with no P45 and P60 for 2006 causing problems to this day (i ceased trading in June '05 and didn't fancy paying the acnt till April '06 to complete the tax year, which i now realise was necessary.)

i can't see any future contract i take being outside IR35.. i'm strongly tempted to go brolly this time but can't help being put off by what i read.. i'm still looking for an umbrella feelgood factor around here!

You should take it up with your accountant. They should have been producing P60's for you and should also have been able to produce a P45 when you shut down the company.

Also I think you may be surprised at how easy it is to get your contract tweaked so that you are 90% outside IR35 now days.

[barry_abs]

yeah, good idea.. thanks

[Moose423956]

evening! yeah, i ran a Ltd. the first time i contracted but closed it after only 4 months to move house (a permie job was all that was on offer).

tbh, i detested the extra hassle the Ltd. created and i'm still left with no P45 and P60 for 2006 causing problems to this day (i ceased trading in June '05 and didn't fancy paying the acnt till April '06 to complete the tax year, which i now realise was necessary.)

i can't see any future contract i take being outside IR35.. i'm strongly tempted to go brolly this time but can't help being put off by what i read.. i'm still looking for an umbrella feelgood factor around here!

Why not talk to Simon at SJD? He seems like a decent bloke. I had a chat with him when I was Ltd, and he gave me some good advice, even though I wasn't using his accountancy services.

[barry_abs]

evening! yeah, i ran a Ltd. the first time i contracted but closed it after only 4 months to move house (a permie job was all that was on offer).

tbh, i detested the extra hassle the Ltd. created and i'm still left with no P45 and P60 for 2006 causing problems to this day (i ceased trading in June '05 and didn't fancy paying the acnt till April '06 to complete the tax year, which i now realise was necessary.)

i can't see any future contract i take being outside IR35.. i'm strongly tempted to go brolly this time but can't help being put off by what i read.. i'm still looking for an umbrella feelgood factor around here!

[Moose423956]

hi moose - did you set up your own Ltd. in the end? if so, how does it compare in hindsight?

cheers

No, I've gone permie now, but I'm still allowed to contribute here because I'm still a contractor at heart.

However, I did run a Ltd for about 6 years from 1995 to 2001. I think that's the way to go if you plan on contracting for a longer period. You need to do lots of admin type things throughout the year, but the take-home is definitely more with a Ltd, especially if you're not caught by the dreaded IR35. Also, when I did it, there was no flat rate VAT arrangement, which I hear makes things a lot simpler from a VAT point of view at least.

I'm sure there are lots of people on here who will say you'll be crazy to go via an umbrella, but it's your choice. The umbrella I was with provided the service I needed for 12 months. Yes, I could have saved money with a Ltd co, but I'd have to go through the hassle of setting up and closing down within a short space of time, and I really couldn't be bothered.

Anyway, good luck with whatever choice you make.

[barry_abs]

hi moose - did you set up your own Ltd. in the end? if so, how does it compare in hindsight?

cheers

[Moose423956]

Something stinks with those numbers (regardless of the exorbitant fees!)

The Employee's NI figure should be based on the £67k invoiced, less £8k expenses, less £2.7k fees, less the Employer's NI which is allowable. This would result in an E'ee NI liability of roughly £3.5k - Not the £2k per your illustration.

Similarly, the PAYE calculated on this basis should be less than £12k, not the £14.5k you've shown.

It's a valid point. Also, I've often wondered if there was any way of proving that the amount of NI charged had actually been sent off to the relevant authorities. Not that I don't trust them, but there doesn't seem to be any way of cross-checking what was charged.