Reply to: Umberella Companies

[Bluebird]

you`ve guested correctly, or maybe your read my previous posts, well spotted sherlock, as for the terms and conditions, when I asked for them, they sent me my contract of employment, is this the same????......what I was looking for was the small print, the stuff that shows any hidden charges, how they work out there fee`s etc. do you know what I mean?......The stuff like when you get a new credit card or hoilday insurance, all that tiny print on about 3-5 pages,that say things like if you drop wind at 2.30pm on a monday we will deduct X ammount for the pleasure. Has anyone got anything similar from their Brollies so I can get a rough idea of the layout and whats written in there. I presume most brollies will have a very similar stance.

The contract of employment should be the terms and conditions, that should talk about "renymeration" and "charges".

[ITD2]

you`ve guested correctly, or maybe your read my previous posts, well spotted sherlock, as for the terms and conditions, when I asked for them, they sent me my contract of employment, is this the same????......what I was looking for was the small print, the stuff that shows any hidden charges, how they work out there fee`s etc. do you know what I mean?......The stuff like when you get a new credit card or hoilday insurance, all that tiny print on about 3-5 pages,that say things like if you drop wind at 2.30pm on a monday we will deduct X ammount for the pleasure. Has anyone got anything similar from their Brollies so I can get a rough idea of the layout and whats written in there. I presume most brollies will have a very similar stance.

[Bluebird]

I`ve not signed anything from Orange, has anyone seen their TERMS and CONDITIONS? by the sound of things I don`t think they have even seen it. Does anyone have a copy they could forward onto me?

It sounds like [ and correct me if I'm wrong ] - you have secured an assignment through an agency - they have SUGGESTED that you use Orange Genie [ But you could use any umbrella, say Parasol who seem to get decent reviews here ].

If they can;t tell you what the T&Cs are for the arrangement between you and them, then tell them where to go.

Would you enter into a permanent role without knowing the T&Cs ? [ pay, holidays, pension, sick etc ?]

Tell them unless you get confirmation you'll use somebody else.

[ITD2]

I`ve not signed anything from Orange, has anyone seen their TERMS and CONDITIONS? by the sound of things I don`t think they have even seen it. Does anyone have a copy they could forward onto me?

[Bluebird]

So what about their TERMS & CONDITIONS should an Umbrella company always supply you with this? If so doe’s anyone have Orange Genies that they could email to me. As Orange are very Evasive about this.

If you've got a contract with somebody you should know the terms & conditions - otherwise you shouldn't really sign it.

If you have signed or entered into a contract and don't know what you've agreed to then I'm sorry I've very little sympathy for you.

[ITD2]

So what about their TERMS & CONDITIONS should an Umbrella company always supply you with this? If so doe’s anyone have Orange Genies that they could email to me. As Orange are very Evasive about this.

[ASB]

Hi there,

This is an interesting exercise I did for myself. I wanted to see how well the money I am getting is compared to an Umbrella as PAYE.

So I worked out my weekly pretax income and multiplied by 52 weeks (no holidays taken into consideration).

I found a tax calculator, here is one of them below. SJD website also has one.

http://www.listentotaxman.com/index....bmit=Calculate


I am earning about 63 pounds less a week than if I was on permanent with same pretax income, this also allows for claiming my travel. Also no holidays, sick leave.

I should be only be getting less the cost of my weekly umbrella fees in all reality.

But oh well.

I doubt you are comparing like with like. The first thing you have to do is consider employers NI. Whether you like it or not it's part of the equation it is part of the cost of employment.

Yes, the employer {brolly} pays NI - nut the only revenue stream they have to pay it out of is what you are charged out at.

[minstrel]

I should be only be getting less the cost of my weekly umbrella fees in all reality.

No you shouldn't. Operating through Umbrella you need to pay Employers NI as well. That calculator you posted the link for only includes Employees NI.

I think you'll find that's what £63 difference is.

[Austin Wong]

Hi there,

This is an interesting exercise I did for myself. I wanted to see how well the money I am getting is compared to an Umbrella as PAYE.

So I worked out my weekly pretax income and multiplied by 52 weeks (no holidays taken into consideration).

I found a tax calculator, here is one of them below. SJD website also has one.

http://www.listentotaxman.com/index....bmit=Calculate


I am earning about 63 pounds less a week than if I was on permanent with same pretax income, this also allows for claiming my travel. Also no holidays, sick leave.

I should be only be getting less the cost of my weekly umbrella fees in all reality.

But oh well.

[Bluebird]

Yep your right there Agency hired me and said that I would be paid by the umbrella? They recommended Orange Genie; do they get some sort of credit advance from orange? Its all very confusing......I suppose the agency does this so that it does not have to pay NI contributions and thus saving them selves a lot of money. What is strange is that some are on the books and some are not

yep your getting screwed.

The agency is taking a cut of the money that you earn, but is not offering you any employment rights - like sick pay, holiday pay etc.
They are also making you pay the employee's contribitions to the state...

Talk about having their cake and eating it...

What sort of work are you doing?

There may be scope for you to ditch this contract and start a ltd company and be a contractor - at the moment all you are is slave labour - you may as well be polish.

[ITD2]

Yep your right there Agency hired me and said that I would be paid by the umbrella? They recommended Orange Genie; do they get some sort of credit advance from orange? Its all very confusing......I suppose the agency does this so that it does not have to pay NI contributions and thus saving them selves a lot of money. What is strange is that some are on the books and some are not

[Bigbird]

You should be on the agency's books. They are taking the piss.

How did you come to be working for an umbrella? Don't tell me - the agency recommended them? Bunch of bleeding cowboys, you truly would be better off elsewhere.

[ITD2]

I contract for an agency who supply me with work, and i`m on an hourly rate... but not on the books with the agency. ...This is the 1st time ive done this type of work (contracting is what I belive I am doing ) all my other positions were perminent..... Sounded good to start with but after a couple of months getting hit with 40% stoppages/deductions, I`ve come to the conclusion you a right cooperinliverpool I`d be better of with a paper round or stacking shelves.
Like I say im new to all this type of work and am trying to find out more...you got to start some where any advice very welcome

[Cooperinliverp00l]

If you are only earning £2k/month why are you bothering with contracting in the first place? You would be much better off with a permie role where you have no fees and no employers NIC deducted from your wage.

Even doing standard agency work where you are a direct employee of the agency (well on a contract for services if you want to be pedantic, but an employee for tax purposes) would be better for you because again there are no fees and the agency is responsible for paying employers NI.

You need to get your CV out there.............

unless that is only working 1 day in that month !!!! This means annually 24k a year take off Employers NI, Employee Ni, PAYE you get paid more putting the salt on the fries at McDonalds or aligning the tins of beans at Asda.

[Bigbird]

If you are only earning £2k/month why are you bothering with contracting in the first place? You would be much better off with a permie role where you have no fees and no employers NIC deducted from your wage.

Even doing standard agency work where you are a direct employee of the agency (well on a contract for services if you want to be pedantic, but an employee for tax purposes) would be better for you because again there are no fees and the agency is responsible for paying employers NI.

You need to get your CV out there.............