Reply to: Slapped wrist or asking for trouble

[Ardesco]

up to 30 years for fraud, while a nonce gets 18 months. shows how cock eyed the system is.

That is up to 30 years, depending on the severity of the crime. You haven't defined what you mean by nonce, and what sort of crime you are saying they have committed so it doesn't really show how cock eyed the system is.

The big problem with the british justice system is that the law has nothing to do with what is right and wrong, it is simply a game that barristers get paid lots of money to play. The biggest injustice is that most hardened criminals know how to play the game, and they play it well. This means they get away with short sentances, and even no sentance sometimes while your average Joe Bloggs who doesn't normally get into trouble and has no idea how to play the game loses out and is often made an example to discourage other average Joe Bloggs' from doing the same thing.

[ssaunders]

hands in our pockets!

up to 30 years for fraud, while a nonce gets 18 months. shows how cock eyed the system is. if people want to abuse it then let them :- you pays your money and you take your chance.
If someone wants to recoup some cash from Mr Brown, then let them, he constantly has his hand in our pocket. you cant even die nowadays without it costing.
last week i paid 300 tax and NI, where does it go, NHS? NO. Roads? NO. education? NO. this (and all) goverment(s) take more and more and give less and less.
in the words of jerry mcguire
SHOW ME THE MONEY.

my rant for the day

live long and prosper

[Cowboy Bob]

I don't want to risk it but I wish I could show people around me the real risk, not the what ifs but hard fast cases where IR have investigated a meagre case (not a big bod whos done loads of fraud). Therefore giving me the satisfaction that everyone is on levelk playing field rather than the bad people being rewarded for their dishonesty!

How about our very own SallyAnne? - http://forums.contractoruk.com/threa...-expenses.html

[Bluebird]

The bottom line is that you are a business - you should only claim for expenses that you have actually incurred.

If you work away from home claim the costs of stays and subsitance, if not you've got milage.

Any business costs are paid for by the business.

The rewards for using running your own company rather than doing PAYE are great enough - why risk an investigation and all that it entails for a few extra quid - if money is that important get a higher paid contract.

It does amaze me that a lot of people on here moan about expenses that other claim fraudulently, % agents take from cleints, when in fact they get recieve a lot more money than if they were doing the same job as a permie.

As Mal says time again, if you are a business, think like one - if not get yourself a perm job.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Makes me feel quite sick, 360 have basically made out to me that I can claim £10 every day and only once every so often will they check my compliance by asking for receipts for a week and then continue to alow me to claim £10 a DAY without receipts. For a 40% tax payer thats over £100 in fraudulent expenses.

I don't want to risk it but I wish I could show people around me the real risk, not the what ifs but hard fast cases where IR have investigated a meagre case (not a big bod whos done loads of fraud). Therefore giving me the satisfaction that everyone is on levelk playing field rather than the bad people being rewarded for their dishonesty!

At the end of the day ask your colleagues whether they think it likely that Gordon Brown would give them £50 a week just for going to work which is really what the £10 per day unreceipted amounts to. I think anyone would agree that it's not really very likely!

[gingerjedi]

I stopped claiming travel expenses all together as soon as I knew I would be here beyond 24 months, I never bothered claiming for food as soon as OG started saying you need to keep receipts (I'm ltd now).

Despite this there are others here who still claim for everything and say the 24 month rule doesn’t apply to them since the end client changed, I know they are wrong and I'd rather have peace of mind than a few extra quid in my pocket.

[Damo1176]

Makes me feel quite sick, 360 have basically made out to me that I can claim £10 every day and only once every so often will they check my compliance by asking for receipts for a week and then continue to alow me to claim £10 a DAY without receipts. For a 40% tax payer thats over £100 in fraudulent expenses.

I don't want to risk it but I wish I could show people around me the real risk, not the what ifs but hard fast cases where IR have investigated a meagre case (not a big bod whos done loads of fraud). Therefore giving me the satisfaction that everyone is on levelk playing field rather than the bad people being rewarded for their dishonesty!

[Ardesco]

Clever marketing bulltulip. Ask her if she will indemnify you for all of the expenses that you claim for and pay any monies owed to IR if YOU are investigated and IR says that because YOU don't have receipts they are going to fine YOU, levy penalty charges against YOU and expect £XXX amount back in tax.

I'm sure she will refuse to do this.

[Cowboy Bob]

I'm sorry your getting told such conflicting information but we are fully compliant and are not at any risk with the Inland Revenue or doing anything with shouldn't in light of the new legislation.

Terri Fiander

That reply is VERY carefully worded. Whilst it's true that they're fully compliant, it is the individual contractor who will get into trouble.

[Damo1176]

TO add further information she continues and basically says that they get warning from HMRC and then get their contractors to prove compliacne from a week then settle back to no receipts again!

With the new legislation in light im sure you are hearing a lot of different messages, I cannot speak for other companies only how we are. 3Sixty have been established for over 8 years and have always maintained a high dispensation this is because we have always been able to produce evidence that yes contractors can claim this amount of money each day.

Yes a dispensation is for the company but using a PAYE umbrella solution you become an employee of that company and that is why you are also able to claim this dispensation.

With so much changed recently lots of other Umbrella companies operated as a MSC or a PSC now because of this they have to build their dispensation again where as we have never done anything wrong, have not changed to comply with the new legislation purely because we have never done anything wrong an in the budget report it states that yes you can use a PAYE umbrella solution this are not targeted by eth new Legislation.

I'm afraid that yes you will be told other things which isn't necessarily how we all operate and you can only go with what your being told. I'm sorry your getting told such conflicting information but we are fully compliant and are not at any risk with the Inland Revenue or doing anything with shouldn't in light of the new legislation.

Terri Fiander

[Ardesco]

Thought you'd be interested to see this.

My friend goes through 360 Group and he told me to switch as minimum I could claim £10 a day subsistence and £5 postage a day too. He often claimed £26 a day because he was out of the house for longer than 10 hours. He was told that if the IR investigated that he would get warning and would have to provide receipts for a week to prove their compliance.

I wrote to them to get it in writing and at first they declined saying to call them, I then received this email:

All Umbrella companies are given a dispensation on TAX FREE EXPENSES, as part of our dispensation for money and day for food and drink this is generated by how many hours a day you are out of the house.

More than 10 hours = £26.00
Less than 10 hours = £10.00

Both are unreceipted, I mean we obviously have to do compliance checks so there could be a week where we ask you to keep all receipts but our dispensation is base on you being out of the house.

Hope this helps
Regards
Terri Fiander

That to me opends the door for many to claim and prove compliacne every once in a while, based on this he is making over £200 a month in unreceipted unproved expenses!

Naughty Naughty Terri, you should be telling your clients that they should be keeping all recipts because when HMG have a look at your clients accounts they will expect to see them.

A good reason to steer clear of 360 group IMHO

[Old Greg]

Thought you'd be interested to see this.

My friend goes through 360 Group and he told me to switch as minimum I could claim £10 a day subsistence and £5 postage a day too. He often claimed £26 a day because he was out of the house for longer than 10 hours. He was told that if the IR investigated that he would get warning and would have to provide receipts for a week to prove their compliance.

I wrote to them to get it in writing and at first they declined saying to call them, I then received this email:

All Umbrella companies are given a dispensation on TAX FREE EXPENSES, as part of our dispensation for money and day for food and drink this is generated by how many hours a day you are out of the house.

More than 10 hours = £26.00
Less than 10 hours = £10.00

Both are unreceipted, I mean we obviously have to do compliance checks so there could be a week where we ask you to keep all receipts but our dispensation is base on you being out of the house.

Hope this helps
Regards
Terri Fiander

That to me opends the door for many to claim and prove compliacne every once in a while, based on this he is making over £200 a month in unreceipted unproved expenses!

So, he's stealing from the taxpayer, then?

[Damo1176]

Thought you'd be interested to see this.

My friend goes through 360 Group and he told me to switch as minimum I could claim £10 a day subsistence and £5 postage a day too. He often claimed £26 a day because he was out of the house for longer than 10 hours. He was told that if the IR investigated that he would get warning and would have to provide receipts for a week to prove their compliance.

I wrote to them to get it in writing and at first they declined saying to call them, I then received this email:

[I]All Umbrella companies are given a dispensation on TAX FREE EXPENSES, as part of our dispensation for money and day for food and drink this is generated by how many hours a day you are out of the house.

More than 10 hours = £26.00
Less than 10 hours = £10.00

Both are unreceipted, I mean we obviously have to do compliance checks so there could be a week where we ask you to keep all receipts but our dispensation is base on you being out of the house.

Hope this helps


That to me opens the door for many to claim and prove compliacne every once in a while, based on this he is making over £200 a month in unreceipted unproved expenses!

[Old Greg]

What I can claim and get away with really. The fact that some people get away with murder is just me venting frustration!

If you're that bothered dob them in (wouldn't do it myself). There are plenty of shop-a-benefit-fraudstet phone lines. Perhaps one for companies would keep us all honest (and as someone said - it is stealing).

[Ardesco]

What do they do, drag everything up?! Some believe that if they get caught the'll just end up paying back what they owe, just simply saying they have not got the receipts and thats that.

Absolute worst case scenario is that you can be convicted of fraud and locked up. I belive the maximum sentace for fraud can be up to 30 years.

I'm not saying you will get locked up for 30 years for claiming £5 a day, but if it does go to court and the prosecution proves that you have defrauded the tax man for a large amount of money on a consistent basis for a very long time and shown no regret the judge can always take a harsh view...

Is it really worth it?