Reply to: Looking for FreeAgent Beta Testers

[edmolyneux]

Now with added Cater Allen goodness

In a remarkable display of client responsiveness, it seems Cater Allen now have an acceptable format for statement download. OK, it's still CSV and there's a limit to how clever we can be with it, but it's better than nothing.

This is a good thing, because we know lots of Contractors who are with them, thanks to their free banking offers etc.

The good news is we're adding support for banks who only allow CSV statement download progressively.

In this morning's update we added Cater Allen, and Abbey Business too.

Based on feedback from this forum, I know some of you were holding off until we had statement upload support, and I don't blame you - it's a big timesaver.

You've only got 5 weeks left to join the FreeAgent Beta Test programme! Free 6 months of service if you use FreeAgent and provide some feedback!

[Let-Me-In]

Wow, 'fingers like lightning' is right. That post must have been up for all of 15 seconds!

Er, no.

High 5!!!!

[edmolyneux]

Are you Borat?

Wow, 'fingers like lightning' is right. That post must have been up for all of 15 seconds!

Er, no.

[Let-Me-In]

. Which is nice.

Are you Borat?

[edmolyneux]

Could not find out on the website cost after the 6 months trial?

We've now announced our pricing: http://www.freeagentcentral.co.uk/ce...uncing_pricing

It's actually a bit lower than we previously discussed. Which is nice.

[edmolyneux]

For this service to work I think you really need to tie up with an accountancy practice and offer a complete service. Otherwise its too disjointed; I mean you do all the admin on your site and then you accountant has to then reprocess it. Most folks want a one stop service, and this would be a winner IMHO.

Wise words, we want to get a few more beta iterations under our belt and populate some demo accounts, and then we'll be talking to the medium-to-large practices to do just that. It makes complete sense, but is also only one of our (at last count) four business models we're testing out.

We're also working on the 'has to then reprocess it' by writing exporters for the major accounts production apps from the likes of Digita and MYOB. It becomes simple for even the smaller practices to take advantage of having a full set of accurate, reconciled books to start from.

BTW have you tried us out? Any comments?

Ed

[backagain]

For this service to work I think you really need to tie up with an accountancy practice and offer a complete service. Otherwise its too disjointed; I mean you do all the admin on your site and then you accountant has to then reprocess it. Most folks want a one stop service, and this would be a winner IMHO.

[edmolyneux]

Minstrel,

We released 'Gouda' last night, which should take care of most of the issues you raised last week:

• You can now rebill out-of-pocket expenses to a project, to be included automatically on an invoice.
• VAT on Mileage is now correctly calculated according to HMRCs guidance and advisory fuel rates going back to 2005.
• We think we've fixed the IE6 pop-up calendar issue.
• Problems with entering weekly timeslips with fractional hours has been fixed.
• You can use your letterheaded paper by selecting a checkbox on the Invoice Details to omit the logo and company address. The client address should also now appear in a window envelope, if that's your thing.

No monthly timesheet thing yet. Soon, though.

BTW anyone reading the thread here who's not signed up on the beta test but wants to know when we've implemented pet-feature 'x' might be interested in our blog feed: it's

http://www.freeagentcentral.co.uk/feed.rss

Hope that helps. Do let me know either here or on the blog if you have any other comments or requests...

Ed

[edmolyneux]

Ed,

1. I'm on IE 6 with Windows XP SP2.

2. The expenses were before invoice date, but they were Accomodation and Subsistence and Mileage, so probably they are out-of-pocket expenses and need to wait for support in 'Gouda'.

3. OK

4. What would work best for me is a monthly grid showing all the calendar days for that month with Monday to Friday pre-populated with 8 hours. Similar to the weekly timeslip but with more boxes. I can then just go in and put zeros in the days I didn't work. For me the comments and task fields aren't that important as I typically work for a single client on a single project and don't need to specify exactly what I was doing.

Minstrel,

1. OK, that's noted and we're exploring it. Very annoying.

2. Yep, and you'll see a new field for 'rebill to project' to make it so.

4. A new monthly timesheet is planned for 'Cheshire' in 3 weeks time. Be good to get your thoughts on it when it comes out...

Ed,

One other suggestion - it would be useful if the invoice generation allowed different invoice templates.

For example, I've got my own company headed paper so would prefer it if the FAC invoice just included a gap at the top and then the invoice details below the horizontal line. I could then print off the invoice on company headed paper which would include logo, address, contact info etc.

An option to suppress the logo and company details entirely, so you can use your own letterhead, is planned now for Gouda. Let me know if it fits yours - we'll try to keep it generic but broadly in line with what stationery people use.

There's more work in building customisable templates. We're looking for a good HTML to PDF engine so we can just use CSS, but good ones cost big money. It may not be worth it if everyone's got cool stationery which they would rather use.

[minstrel]

Ed,

One other suggestion - it would be useful if the invoice generation allowed different invoice templates.

For example, I've got my own company headed paper so would prefer it if the FAC invoice just included a gap at the top and then the invoice details below the horizontal line. I could then print off the invoice on company headed paper which would include logo, address, contact info etc.

[minstrel]

Minstrel,

Thanks for taking the time to check out FreeAgent and write up your feedback. We're getting lots of valuable responses at the moment and it's really helping us drive the service in the right direction.

On your specific points:

1) Can you tell me what platform/browser you're using and we'll follow up...

2) Expenses are only added if they are dated on on prior to the invoice date.
Can you just check the expense and invoice dates are correct in that sense. If they are, there really is an issue which I'll look into.

We we do the next weekly release ('Gouda', this Sunday) you will also be able to rebill out-of-pocket expenses too.

3) You're right - it's not correct at the moment. Sorry.

But you are allowed to reclaim the fuel element of the mileage allowance as long as you have a garage VAT receipt.

The HMRC publishes 'advisory fuel rates' which are a moving target and depend on the engine size and type. Current rates (from 1 Feb 07) are here here .
Yes those rates apply to reimbursing company car fuel but they are assumed to apply to the fuel element of a VAT reclaim, too.

Some accountants advise a standard 10p/mile rate (the real ones vary between 9p and 16p) which, since the rates are advisory only, is likely to be OK.

We'll fix the current behaviour in 'Gouda' to reflect reality (as per the correct mileage rates). Insofar as reality exists at HMRC, that is .

4) A rework of timesheet weekly entry is on the cards for about a fortnight's time. As for monthly entry - what would you personally want to see - a big calendar grid to enter daily hours against a single project and task? Comments on each day as well?

And as for selling the service you're right. There's lots of effort to be saved on their part as well. Once we have the slightly rough edges knocked off, we plan to chat to them. But it's just one of the several business models we're sketching out.

Cheers

Ed

Ed,

1. I'm on IE 6 with Windows XP SP2.

2. The expenses were before invoice date, but they were Accomodation and Subsistence and Mileage, so probably they are out-of-pocket expenses and need to wait for support in 'Gouda'.

3. OK

4. What would work best for me is a monthly grid showing all the calendar days for that month with Monday to Friday pre-populated with 8 hours. Similar to the weekly timeslip but with more boxes. I can then just go in and put zeros in the days I didn't work. For me the comments and task fields aren't that important as I typically work for a single client on a single project and don't need to specify exactly what I was doing.

[edmolyneux]

Ed,

I've taken a look a FreeAgent and I really like what you have done.

It's better than SJD's clunky spreadsheet and also beats JSA.net (JSA's online tool).

I agree with other posters that pricing could be an issue. Personally, I think your most viable route to market has got to be via one of the established contractor accountants. Get the accountant to make FreeAgent their preferred data entry system and then get your revenue direct from accountant via some form of licensing agreement i.e. users effectively pay for FreeAgent as part of their accountancy fees.

A couple of bugs/issues/suggestions for you I spotted whilst having a play:

1. When you click the 'Show Calendar' icon for 'Starting Date' on the 'Edit Company Details' screen it takes you a calendar pick screen, but when you pick a date it just goes to a blank screen.

2. When creating an Invoice and selecting Include Unbilled Expenses it doesn't seem to add them.

3. When you add a mileage expense it includes a VAT element (at least in the description). I don't think that is correct.

4. Agree with Tim that adding weekly task hours isn't completely intuative. I expect many contractors would want ability to enter time on a monthly basis too.

So, I like what done, but wouldn't want to pay anything more for it on top of my accountancy fees. After all, if I have to enter everything into FreeAgent and then enter it again into an SJD spreadsheet that doesn't actually save me any time.

My advice would be to focus on selling this to the contactor accountants.

All the best of luck - you deserve to make a few quid out of this.

Minstrel,

Thanks for taking the time to check out FreeAgent and write up your feedback. We're getting lots of valuable responses at the moment and it's really helping us drive the service in the right direction.

On your specific points:

1) Can you tell me what platform/browser you're using and we'll follow up...

2) Expenses are only added if they are dated on on prior to the invoice date.
Can you just check the expense and invoice dates are correct in that sense. If they are, there really is an issue which I'll look into.

We we do the next weekly release ('Gouda', this Sunday) you will also be able to rebill out-of-pocket expenses too.

3) You're right - it's not correct at the moment. Sorry.

But you are allowed to reclaim the fuel element of the mileage allowance as long as you have a garage VAT receipt.

The HMRC publishes 'advisory fuel rates' which are a moving target and depend on the engine size and type. Current rates (from 1 Feb 07) are here and historical rates are here .
Yes those rates apply to reimbursing company car fuel but they are assumed to apply to the fuel element of a VAT reclaim, too.

Some accountants advise a standard 10p/mile rate (the real ones vary between 9p and 16p) which, since the rates are advisory only, is likely to be OK.

We'll fix the current behaviour in 'Gouda' to reflect reality (as per the correct mileage rates). Insofar as reality exists at HMRC, that is .

4) A rework of timesheet weekly entry is on the cards for about a fortnight's time. As for monthly entry - what would you personally want to see - a big calendar grid to enter daily hours against a single project and task? Comments on each day as well?

And as for selling the service you're right. There's lots of effort to be saved on their part as well. Once we have the slightly rough edges knocked off, we plan to chat to them. But it's just one of the several business models we're sketching out.

Cheers

Ed

[dahowlett]

Thanks for the feedback

Thanks for the feedback - we really appreciate it.

On pricing - I think it's important to understand what we're really trying to do here. And yes - we've not done enough to explain the value proposition. We're working in that.

We see this as a way of removing a lot of the grunt work that both you as a contractor and the accountant as the preparer are *really* involved in.

As a former professional, I know that around 60-70% of that cost is tied up in sorting out the records the professional receives. Ed and his team have worked really hard on this aspect so that when the numbers are worked into tax preparer format, there should be comparatively little to do.

I see lots of posts where the contractor is trying to sort out routine problems. In the FAC approach, we're building out a TON of help, supported in lots of different ways so that hopefully, your time (and money) spent with the professional is put to good use. You can look at this one of 2 ways:

1. Reduce the overall professional's annual bill
2. Use the professional's time to get the best advice

We think those 2 factors serve as game changers because they put control of your affairs firmly in your hands and not those of a professional with whom you may only have a tenuous relationship. Even if it is at a fixed price.

The key is to see that when you have a fair indication of tax liability in advance of the year end then you are in a far better position to plan how to mitigate that liability rather than after the year end.

As I said, we've still got a long way to go in terms of explaining the value proposition but we're working hard to make sure that it is crystal clear and makes sense in plain English.

As an addition, we see FAC as a community where shared experience can actively help you understand how to manage your affairs. The folk involved are from the contracting world and we think that makes them uniquely qualified to understand the problems faced. We're not replacing forums like this but will use them as ways of enriching the user experience (sorry for marketing BS words).

We have over 100 beta users pulled in less than a week and we're now getting external feedback. http://del.icio.us/freeagentcentral. Check it out for yourselves and please keep that feedback coming. We genuinely welcome it.

Thanks for your attention.

BTW - if anyone has specific questions and wants fast answers then you can try my skype id: dahowlett - I'll do my best to answer in real-time.

[minstrel]

Ed,

I've taken a look a FreeAgent and I really like what you have done.

It's better than SJD's clunky spreadsheet and also beats JSA.net (JSA's online tool).

I agree with other posters that pricing could be an issue. Personally, I think your most viable route to market has got to be via one of the established contractor accountants. Get the accountant to make FreeAgent their preferred data entry system and then get your revenue direct from accountant via some form of licensing agreement i.e. users effectively pay for FreeAgent as part of their accountancy fees.

A couple of bugs/issues/suggestions for you I spotted whilst having a play:

1. When you click the 'Show Calendar' icon for 'Starting Date' on the 'Edit Company Details' screen it takes you a calendar pick screen, but when you pick a date it just goes to a blank screen.

2. When creating an Invoice and selecting Include Unbilled Expenses it doesn't seem to add them.

3. When you add a mileage expense it includes a VAT element (at least in the description). I don't think that is correct.

4. Agree with Tim that adding weekly task hours isn't completely intuative. I expect many contractors would want ability to enter time on a monthly basis too.

So, I like what done, but wouldn't want to pay anything more for it on top of my accountancy fees. After all, if I have to enter everything into FreeAgent and then enter it again into an SJD spreadsheet that doesn't actually save me any time.

My advice would be to focus on selling this to the contactor accountants.

All the best of luck - you deserve to make a few quid out of this.

[Zorba]

Got to agree on the pain point - it must be special to make it worth the effort. But I'll check it out anyway when I get the chance... SJD's sheet is quite big and bulky and I sometimes forget what goes where