Reply to: LawSpeed ?

OK, if you insist

Last time I needed an assessment I asked SJD. But I knwo what the contract should and shouldn't contain and my last four roles have been either with people using the bog-standard Lawspeed contract or a basic Ts&Cs with a detailed schedule of work required, so I'm probably not a good example!

Re: IR35 Insurance

Can we get back on topic please - I'm interested to know who's using tax consultants for contract review, IR35 insurance etc, and what the benefits there may be.

Don't clogg this thread up with an IR35 bitching session - start your own for that.

IR35 Insurance

Route35 insurance (now part of PCG+) provides insurance cover upto & including commissioners. Cover is independent of contract review or strength. To date there have been 650+ IR35 wins with 4 losses.

Contract length is only a minor factor in deciding IR35 cases. I have known several cases where contractors have been at the same client for 10yrs+, they were not caught by IR35 when investigated.

The key pointers for passing IR35 are :

- Lack of Direction & Control
- No MOO (Mutality Of Obligation)
- Right of Substitution (RoS)
- IBOYOA (weak pointers added together)

I strongly believe that professional representaion is critical during IR investigations. Minimum investigation cover should include PAYE, VAT, Expenses, Corp. Tax, S660 & IR35 investigations to Commissioners.

No, not them...

People like the boss of IKEA, who is a UK resident, but pays no UK taxes at all. Seems he's totally supported by his wife, who is a Monaco resident.

People like the banks paying some of their people bonuses via interesting schemes involving rare wines and the like

Sadly Hector isn't smart enough to distinguish betwee people applying the law as intended and the p*ss extractors. Hence sledgehammer legislation that has screwed us all up.

And if you think Moron Brown and his minions are interested in fairness and legality, you haven't been paying attention to recent events. For one thing, compare the DTI's published advice on how to structure a small business with the reality of the current tax landscape...

Re: Well there's one born every minute...

IR35 is a voluntary tax

Regardless of the circumstances? Even if (for example) you've worked for the same client and no-one else for more than 10 years, as a DBA, not doing project-based work?

we got IR35 because some people were taking the p*ss out of the tax laws

People who paid minimum salaries and made their spouse a shareholder in their company were complying perfectly with the law as it was understood at the time. You said yourself you don't believe in paying more tax than is legally required. They were much less guilty of "taking the p*ss" than the vast majority of those currently claiming their contracts are not caught.

Well there's one born every minute...

Nice to know there are still some fools left.

IR35 is a voluntary tax - if you feel so strongly about paying tax on your operating costs then go ahead and sign up. On any sort of decent rate you're wasting about £5k pa, but hey, it's your money.

Since I don't get sick pay, healthcare, pensions, SSP, paid leave or employment protection - in fact I'm paying out around £1100 a month out of my earned income for all that - I really don't see that I should. And I know how to defend my position if challenged by Hector, which is based on business indicators, not on being a PCG member.

And to be clear, we got IR35 because some people were taking the p*ss out of the tax laws. Like a lot of people, I don't - but I'm also not going to pay any more tax than I am legally required to.

Re: Past Contracts

builders don't work through an intermediary (agency)

:-)

I didn't say the law was fair...I hate it but, it exists.

I am sure if they change the law for builders/plumbers there would be riots on the streets but, I can't really imagine on bunch if IT consultants rioting !!!!!! Would sure be a funny sight.

Re: Past Contracts

Do you get a pension from the company your are currently providing a service to?

Health Care?
Profit Bonus?
Sick Pay?
Car Scheme?

Why would you think you are inside IR35. I am a business providing a service to various customers. Do you think the builder who has been working on my house for 12 months is inside IR35? And he gets free cups of TEA!

Re: Past Contracts

Unfortunatly it is that attitude which has meant most contracts are working on the pretence that they are outside IR35 instead of activly protesting against it.

Face it, the law exists until WE get it changed.

Ignoring it will not change anything.

There are still people in court today for unpaid Poll Tax bills!!

Everyone will pay eventually, unless they are willing to sit in court and fight it.

Re: Past Contracts

eh?

Why dont you just head down to 11 Downing St - drop your knickers and bend over.

NEVER EVER agree that you are inside IR35. If you are Ltd and a contractor your are outside, unless someone tells you different.

Re: Past Contracts

I am sure they would refuse your insurance claim if you are actually deemed within IR35 so, it kind of seems pointless.

I have many collegues who are not paying IR35 who claim that they are covered because they are memebers of the PCG....I doubt the PCG would defend you in court if you ARE actually within IR35.

Basically, if you are a contractor, you pay IR35. If you think you are outside it, you are probably kidding yourself!

Past Contracts

My personal view is that, why take TLC cover when it is only available if contracts clearly pass. If they clearly pass you do not need this cover, but only investigation insurance.

That is my view as well, although it is possible to fail an IR35 investigation despite the contractual conditions, so there is a marginal case for such cover.

BTW, Route35 is alive and well - it's been bundled into PCGplus, it seems, to stop the PCG having to become an insurance broker and so have to meet all the FSA rules.

Past Contracts

Are you talking asking about PCG Investigation insuranace or Tax insurance ?

PCG insurance (PCG Plus)
It does not matter, as you need to have cover at the commencement of investigation. This covers all previous contracts, with no reviews required.

Tax Liability Cover Insurance
You may be right. You probably have to have all the contracts reviewed & negotiate a premium if they pass.

My personal view is that, why take TLC cover when it is only available if contracts clearly pass. If they clearly pass you do not need this cover, but only investigation insurance.

Re: IR35 Insurance

I'm guessing they won't cover you for historical contracts you have already completed !? ie. the contract won't have been reviewed and amended at the time

Re: IR35 Insurance

Just to clarify. Route35 from the PCG doesn't exist any more. It has been replaced by a membership class called PCGPlus which does pretty much the same thing.