Reply to: Contracting remotely from Ireland with UK company

[northernladyuk]

Matters not, there is no tax harmonization within EU.

Bingo!

[stek]

Qatar wasn't in the EU last time I looked.

Matters not, there is no tax harmonization within EU.

[BR14]

I didn't even have to look to know that.

i give up, you don't/won't get it.

[northernladyuk]

Qatar wasn't in the EU last time I looked.

I didn't even have to look to know that.

[BR14]

The counterpart is that I could sit in the UK providing services remotely for a company in Qatar and pay 0% income tax in Qatar.

Qatar wasn't in the EU last time I looked.

[northernladyuk]

Yes, I could imagine the Irish revenue people wouldn't take too kindly to me telling them I'm not working there if I'm typing at a computer 8 hours a day. If that were the case, then any company would have all their computing power offshore, and say "all these people you're telling me are working here and should be paying tax and NI - they're not - they're working in the cloud, in some indeterminate country."
It would be difficult for them to know I'm working there if I didn't tell them, but as with everything else, the money trail would eventually lead them to my door!

The counterpart is that I could sit in the UK providing services remotely for a company in Qatar and pay 0% income tax in Qatar.

[BR14]

Yes, I could imagine the Irish revenue people wouldn't take too kindly to me telling them I'm not working there if I'm typing at a computer 8 hours a day. If that were the case, then any company would have all their computing power offshore, and say "all these people you're telling me are working here and should be paying tax and NI - they're not - they're working in the cloud, in some indeterminate country."
It would be difficult for them to know I'm working there if I didn't tell them, but as with everything else, the money trail would eventually lead them to my door!

well, i was resident in NL and working remotely on UK systems, for a UK bank.
HMRC and BD agreed i pay tax in UK.
just saying

[jamesbrown]

As for "continuing in a similar trade or activity" - if I am not running a business in the UK, but possibly self-employed in Ireland (using that Icon director umbrella setup for example), then is it HMRC or the Irish Revenue who are in charge of my tax affairs?

Presumably you're intending to report this capital distribution on a UK SATR and request ER? If so, it's 100% caught under TiS if you're carrying on the same trade or activity within a two year period after your close. If you're planning to dispose of your UK company when no longer UK tax resident, then it's a different matter, but that's not how I read your post. Also, in that case, note that you'll have any dividends/capital distribution taxed on your return to the UK if you resume residency within a 5yr period - so you'd better be thinking about leaving long-term.

[SilverBirch]

That doesn't sound right, but I may have it wrong as I haven't worked in that way before. In my mind, if you're living in Ireland and working in Ireland you pay tax in Ireland, even if your client is in the UK.

Yes, I could imagine the Irish revenue people wouldn't take too kindly to me telling them I'm not working there if I'm typing at a computer 8 hours a day. If that were the case, then any company would have all their computing power offshore, and say "all these people you're telling me are working here and should be paying tax and NI - they're not - they're working in the cloud, in some indeterminate country."
It would be difficult for them to know I'm working there if I didn't tell them, but as with everything else, the money trail would eventually lead them to my door!

[jamesbrown]

I might be misremembering but wasn’t it said that employment (which would include an umbrella) would not count as a similar trade or activity?

Also, if you’re no longer in the U.K. how would HMRC know what you’re doing once you’ve left?

Umbrella is a grey area, but probably fine. Umbrella with the same client? Dunno, but I really wouldn't want to test that one (specifically w/r to "activity"), given how little of this is tested. It could be quite easily argued that avoidance is a primary motivation in this case.

Also, note that the OP wasn't definitive about using an umbrella. If they use a Ltd, it's definitely caught.

Caught and found out are two different things, but I'd prefer to operate on the former and not wing it. YMMV.

[stek]

As a Ltd company director (and probably as a contractor working via director's umbrella) you are classified as self-employed for PRSI (NIC) purposes. https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Work...-Purposes.aspx

In UK UKVI classes directors (and therefore Ltd Co. contractors too) as self-employed when they legally aren't. And brolly contractors are employed. Weird....

[northernladyuk]

the work is being performed in UK, for a UK company. albeit remotely.
you'll probably be best using a UK brolly, and declare your income as UK taxed on your irish return.
I did this for years from NL and that's how it worked, but i'd check with the irish taxman.

That doesn't sound right, but I may have it wrong as I haven't worked in that way before. In my mind, if you're living in Ireland and working in Ireland you pay tax in Ireland, even if your client is in the UK.

[northernladyuk]

Don't use an Irish Ltd, there is no concept of dividends here. Director Umbrella is the way to go, and you'll be employed, not self-employed.

There's no doubt in the interim split years you'll be tax resident in UK and IRL, so plan for that. Also it's a lot more expensive to live here, bear that in mind.

As a Ltd company director (and probably as a contractor working via director's umbrella) you are classified as self-employed for PRSI (NIC) purposes. https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Work...-Purposes.aspx

[stek]

Hi,
Thanks everyone for your suggestions.
It sounds like going through an Irish umbrella or Ltd is the way to go then. Hopefully I can get set up fairly quickly so there isn't a big gap between me closing my UK company and starting through an Irish umbrella. Could I get set up with an Irish umbrella before I even move so there's no service gap?
I'd fully expect to be tax resident in 2019 as I'd have gone over the 280 day limit between 2018 and 2019. In 2018 though, I want to avoid any capital distribution from winding up the UK company to be subject to Irish capital gains tax. Just in case they wanted to treat me as being tax resident for all of 2018, or if I'm in Ireland by the time the company is fully wound up.
As for "continuing in a similar trade or activity" - if I am not running a business in the UK, but possibly self-employed in Ireland (using that Icon director umbrella setup for example), then is it HMRC or the Irish Revenue who are in charge of my tax affairs? As northernladyuk says, I'll be living and working in Ireland - they'll want to tax it there as that's where the work is being done.
A lot to think about!
Thanks again.

Don't use an Irish Ltd, there is no concept of dividends here. Director Umbrella is the way to go, and you'll be employed, not self-employed.

There's no doubt in the interim split years you'll be tax resident in UK and IRL, so plan for that. Also it's a lot more expensive to live here, bear that in mind.

[BR14]

the work is being performed in UK, for a UK company. albeit remotely.
you'll probably be best using a UK brolly, and declare your income as UK taxed on your irish return.
I did this for years from NL and that's how it worked, but i'd check with the irish taxman.